Choosing between the 3 Bonus/Penalty options when Narrating?

[kevperrine]

Choosing between the 3 Bonus/Penalty options when Narrating?


Okay. It's easy to know how and when to use these different points of the BASH! rules. But I'm still getting my head around the WHY of using them...
meaning, I'd like help understanding the probability inherent for each bonus/penalty to understand best HOW to choose between implementing one of them in a situation.

Of the three (six) options can folks more adapt in probability and game percentages than myself give me an easy to understand reason for when to use each? When each is most often utilized? Maybe an example?

As a Narrator I want to have better command of which option I'm using, and I have not played enough in-game to see the ramifications of using the options.

Dice Bonus/Penalty: A number that is added/subtracted from the 2d6 roll before multiplying. When written, the dice bonus comes before x. So a roll with a multiplier of 3 and a dice penalty of 2 is written -2x3.

Multiplier Bonus/Penalty: A number that is added to/subtracted from the multiplier. For example, a +2 Multiplier Bonus would change a x3 to a x5.

Result Bonus/Penalty: A number that is added/subtracted from the total result of a die roll after multiplying. It is written after the multiplier. For example, with a +5 Result bonus, x3 multiplier, you write x3+5.

Some of the benefits are obvious, but I'd like to know if I'm missing anything...
Thanks for your thoughts!
-kev-

[BASHMAN]

Are you talking about the Benefits/Hindrance table? Because those are already given.

Regarding odds, it depends on the multiplier:

Result bonuses are best for increasing a minimum result

Dice Bonuses are most effective for people with a high multiplier (x4 or higher).

Multiplier bonuses are most effective for people with a low multiplier.

[kevperrine]

Are you talking about the Benefits/Hindrance table? Because those are already given.

Regarding odds, it depends on the multiplier:

Result bonuses are best for increasing a minimum result

Dice Bonuses are most effective for people with a high multiplier (x4 or higher).

Multiplier bonuses are most effective for people with a low multiplier.

No no. I was just wondering in general about WHY and HOW the three (six with Bonus & Penalty) of the main ways to modify any die rolls *work*.

What you're noting is headed in the direction I'm looking for thoughts on.

But I'm looking to know what you mean by "most effective", or better yet - when to use each. When does a Narrator choose to use one over the other two options. What effect does one have compared to the other when enforced on a situation by the Narrator?
For both BONUS and for PENALTY during a game.



Okay.... I'll step back. Maybe I am looking at THOSE "modifiers" incorrectly.
My question is me assuming that a Narrator CAN/should choose one or the other based on a situation. Perhaps I'm reading the overall rules wrong - and you're NOT supposed to use them as options to "modify" in-game play all the time. Do each have a SPECIFIC time/situation (or a set of situations) that you use each for ONLY? If so... what are those situations?


It's a more detailed understanding of those core mechanic "modifier" rules that I'm looking for, very similar to the "Situational Modifiers" use explanations/examples on page 16.

thanks for the thoughts!
-kev-

[BASHMAN]

By most effective I mean = provides the highest mathematical advantage.

Choosing when to apply which bonus/penalty? That is usually spelled out in the rules by situation/power. If it is some arbitrary penalty you are applying, that is usually in the form of a Dice Penalty (see benefit/Hindrance table).

So as to the *way* each works:

Result Bonus: Roll 2d6. Add up the total. Multiply the total by your multiplier. Finally, add the Result Bonus. So if I have a Multiplier of 3, a Result Bonus of +10, and rolled a 6, my result would be 28. 3x6=18+10.

Dice Bonus: Roll 2d6. Add the Dice bonus to the total. Multiply this total by the multiplier. So if I have a multiplier of 3, and rolled a 6, with a Dice Bonus of +2, my result would be 24 (6+2 = 8x3= 24).

Multiplier Bonus: Increase your multiplier by an ammount equal to your multiplier bonus. Roll 2d6. Multiply the result by your new multiplier. So with a Multiplier of 3 and Multiplier bonus of 2, you roll a 6, your result is 30 (6x5=30).

[kevperrine]

Choosing when to apply which bonus/penalty? That is usually spelled out in the rules by situation/power. If it is some arbitrary penalty you are applying, that is usually in the form of a Dice Penalty (see benefit/Hindrance table).

OH!
I must have been reading into the rules something that isn't there.
But...
I was thinking that a Narrator (at different times) might "enforce" one of those 3 options for Bonus/Penalty for an event, the environment, effects like diseases or gravity or natural disasters, etc.... Or even the BIG "Beyond" level entities in the games.

Is there NO time in Narrating games that the Narrator would need to consider applying one of those 3 Bonus/Penalties? Other than things already covered by them in a power or rule in the book?
If I were making some new threat or situation Narrating a game is there ANY time that I would incorporate those rules?


Or is everything governed by the benefit/Hindrance table?
If that's so, great.
But I'm just looking to understand IF (and when) those core rules should be thought about if NOT specifically in a power or rule description given.


Like I said. I'm not looking to CREATE something extra. I'm just looking to understand if/when a Narrator creating his own new material from stats of a villain to a situational thing, when or IF they could or should be used.

Anything?
-kev-

[BASHMAN]

That's what the Benefit/Hindrance table is for- for applying spur of the moment bonuses or penalties. You don't need anything in addition to that.

That isn't to say you can't or shouldn't make your own. If you're writing your own module to run for instance, and you want to say "the ice is really slippery, so everyone has a -5 Result Penalty to any physical actions or defense while standing on it" instead of a -2Dice Penalty, you can do that.

[kevperrine]

That's what the Benefit/Hindrance table is for- for applying spur of the moment bonuses or penalties. You don't need anything in addition to that.

That isn't to say you can't or shouldn't make your own. If you're writing your own module to run for instance, and you want to say "the ice is really slippery, so everyone has a -5 Result Penalty to any physical actions or defense while standing on it" instead of a -2Dice Penalty, you can do that.

Okay. I've almost got it.
I'm going to look through the BASH! UE core book tonight for all the instances of powers and such USING those other three core mechanic rules - help myself see WHERE they're used more.

My thing.... If I'm writing a module (and I have several ideas) for myself or potentially gearing up for 3rd Party possibility releases... I really want to understand fully WHEN I'm going into "house rule" territory, making up "new" rules or uses of the core mechanics that ARENOT suggested with the BASH! core rules.

I want to understand that, so if I were to make something official to release - to be able to explain or note the change/addition or alternate use of a rule.

BUT if it's in the core concept of the current BASH! UE rules, then I want to figure out where and how those three modifier options ARE used. To be able to use them CONSISTENTLY.

In designing anything to be released or used with the official product, I believe it's VERY important to maintain brand identity in the usage of the rules - and to note/explain deviations. So that someone new to the game will KNOW that "this rule" is (or isnot) a "core BASH! UE" rule (or one made up by a 3rd party publisher).


I'm not ready to publish anything yet... but I like coming at creation of things (even my home games) from the "correct" thinking standpoint. That way I'm not confusing myself if/when I create something for release to the fans.

That's why I might seem confused on the use of THOSE three modifier rules.

Any other thoughts are always appreciated!
I'll report back what I "learn" in teaching myself where and how those three modifier options are used across the book, see if I'm correct... hehe

thanks!
-kev-

[kevperrine]

okay... again, really only for my benefit (and those interested) I looked through the BASH! UE book (used the word finder in PDF actually) and found ALL the references for each of six different the Modifiers I was questioning in this thread!

I decided to do a little number crunching just to see. So I wanted to find the MEDIAN and the Range of numbers for each. Here's what I found that's in the BASH! UE core rules for those: (I also simplified the formulas for the core mechanics for my benefit, correct me if I'm wrong - I'm NOT a mathlete!)

CORE Mechanic
(2D6) x Stat = Difficulty Check
Example: (2d6 = 7) x3 = 21



DICE Bonus Modifiers
(2D6 +DB) x Stat = Difficulty Check
Example (using the median): (2d6 = 7 + 2) x3 = 27
Example (using the high range): (2d6 = 7 + 5) x3 = 39

MEDIAN
+2 Dice Bonus
-1 Dice Penalty

RANGE
+1 to +5 Dice Bonus
-1 to -5 Dice Penalty



MULTIPLIER Bonus Modifiers
(2D6) x (Stat + MB) = Difficulty Check
Example (using the median): (2d6 = 7) x (3 +1) = 28
Example (using the high range): (2d6 = 7) x (3 +5) = 56

MEDIAN
+1 Multiplier Bonus
-1 Multiplier Penalty

RANGE
+1 to +5 Multiplier Bonus
-1 to -2 Multiplier Penalty



RESULT Bonus Modifiers
((2D6) x Stat) +RB = Difficulty Check
Example (using the median): (2d6 = 7) x3 = 21 +5 RB = 26
Example (using the high range): (2d6 = 7) x3 = 21 +25 RB = 46

MEDIAN
+5 Result Bonus
-2 Result Penalty

RANGE
+3 to +25 Result Bonus
-2 to -5 Result Penalty

Assuming I went through the book and calculated correctly, does that all look correct?

-kev-