Coming Soon to Pre-Order: BASH! Comic Character Cavalcade!

[BASHMAN]

BASH! Comic Character Cavalcade!

This will be a product featuring no less than 50 characters submitted by fans of the game. Each will receive their own full page write-up, in the style of an official BASH! Character. This will be a limited release, short print run. Only 50 Pre-order slots are available! So order yours before they run out!

Pre-Order and Submit Your Hero or Villain

Every pre-order will receive one character submission form. So if you pre-order three copies, you can submit three characters. This will be a limited release

What You Get:

• Artwork for your character by Ade Smith
  (artist on “Five Minutes to Midnight”).
• Your character laid out as an official BASH!
  Character Sheet
• An early release of the PDF featuring your
  character.
• A full color printed compilation
  featuring all the submitted characters when it is complete.

Character Submission Guidelines:

While we will do everything we can to accommodate your character submission if you pre-order; we may ask you to submit an alternate character for any of the following reasons:

1. It is already too similar to another character. Pre-orders will be accommodated in a first- come first served basis.
2. The character has already been published elsewhere before. All submissions must be original.

We may ask you to make a couple changes, or we may ask that you submit a different character entirely For instance if a character just has a similar name to another, we may just want a name change. If it has all the same powers, we may need a different character. While we'll do anything we can to accommodate you, if we cannot, we'll get you a refund.

Here's what we'll need from you:

• A character bio of no more than 100 words.
• A description of the character's powers, weakness (if any), any major complications they have; and a physical description.

Here's what we'd also like to have if you can:

• A full character build using BASH! UE rules. This makes sure
  the character build is just the way you want it.
• OR full character build using any other RPG rules. We'll convert it over to BASH! UE as best we can. Just make sure
  it's your own character.
• A sketch of your character. This can be either drawn or made using a hero-making program. Your sketch is the best guideline to make sure your character comes out looking the way you envision.
• A more detailed background and description of the Character.

Regarding Future Publications and your Character

You have the option of allowing your character to be republished in future BASH! Publications, or to choose to keep the character out of any future publications. However, the artwork may still be re-used by Basic Action Games.

Ready to Pre-Order?
The price is $20 US Dollars + Shipping and Handling. The cost of S&H will be the actual shipping cost at the time that the books are ready to go out, with prices varying based on the destination. At current prices, estimate around $7 for shipping to the US and Canada, around $15 for shipping to Europe or Austrailia. When your order is ready to ship, we'll send you a payment request for the shipping amount. Once that is received, your order will be shipped out to you.

The pre-orders should go live on the website in a couple days. I'll be sure to post it when they do.

[drkrash]

This is very cool and, I think, a great price for this sort of thing.

I would love to contribute, but I doubt I'd be able to get something together while slots are still open (since I have my own "slots" to fill now! )

Whether I get to include a character or not, I will certainly be interested in getting the book when its done!

[kroh]

When is the deadline for this?

[kevperrine]

First off. Even in these economically depressed times I will go for this. Because I want to support BASH! and because I think I can come up with something fun to contribute.

I have reservations now, similar to AslanC's product pricing.
Please take it as constructive criticism.

I feel these BASH! product price points are about double the market value. Not that the product won't be good. Just compared to the field, even in the "niche hobby publishing" area.
Most other products of this type from M&M to ICONS prices from $1-$10 max. And in many cases you're getting quite a bit more for the dollar.

I'm not saying that's right. I'm not saying that's fair. I'm just saying as a consumer and an experienced marketing director, the price point just seems above what the market will bare - and encourage more sales.

That price range (for PDFs of this type) is beyond the impulse buy. It's beyond most competition. And it doesn't encourage multiple purchases that might be made otherwise. (for example - I've bought 3-4 "modules" from the ICONS materials for story and ideas alone, simply because their price adds up together to be less than most old print modules: $15-20).


I'm not poo-pooing the idea or product.
I'm just a concerned fan of BASH!... I wish we could start seeing BASH! products and the BASH! 3rd party products on the scale of production like ICONS. Run over the market (like ICONS seems to) with quantity and (knowing many of the creators here for BASH!) beat them in quality at the same time.

It seems to me, now, that there is a very very limited supply of material being published for the BASH! game and that seems to be driving the price of each product to a premium.
Whereas a greater quantity and lower price point might catapult the BASH! brand past ICONS and into M&M territory - the game is that good.



Lastly...
SIDEBAR:
I get the feeling that the price points of many of these projects, official or 3rd party, are "so" high due to the perception of production costs. Perception can be reality. And perhaps those production values are high. But that's not my experience. A creator/developer can "dump" money into a project for sure - but in my experience a solid plan and some research to build the project can give a product developer a very slim budget if time is taken.

For example.
I would challenge any publisher to give me a budget for a PDF and see what could be made. My experience and production sensibilities tell me that a developer can spend roughly $3-10 per page on a PDF and get a very solid and (near) professional grade product. The final in-house cost for something like a 12-20 page PDF at $200. Which could then easily be listed for $1-5. Sell a few dozen and you hit the budget. With a lower market cost, you'll hit the budget quicker and likely see profits - because of IMPULSE buying. The quality, word of mouth and advertising of the work will take the product into profit ranges.

In the end production costs come down to "shopping". You can go with your buddy giving you free work (you often get what you pay for). You can find a friend that does quality work and get a premium price. You can just pick someone based on their style and PAY whatever they ask. Or you can search for styles you like and request pricing, even ask for package deals. And sometimes (if done professionally) even explain the product budget and what other options (other artist/write pricing) and get price matching.
All of that can lower the production costs substantially. It's not perfect, but it's a system I've watched work.


That's my two cents.
I hope it's taken as less of a negative slant and more of an excited supporter looking to help.
thanks
-kev-

[drkrash]

kev,

As a moderately successful indie publisher myself, I want to make a more detailed response to this. Alas, I have not the time at the moment.

So quickly: I did want to point out that the $20 is essentially an inexpensive art commission, combined with a "kickstarter" investment into getting the book finished. I'm a bit of a tightwad myself, but I think this is a fair price. Now, if you told me the finished product would be a $20 PDF for 50 characters made by other people, I'd say that's ridiculous - but my understanding is that is not the case.

[AslanC]

I think this is a fair price as well.

Since I can't really give any of my Zenith Characters to the project, I would be very interested in hosting a contest for this and "purchasing" a slot for the winner.

Would that be acceptable Chris?

[urbwar]

Kev,

I don't see how your criticism on the price really applies. It's not just in pdf form; everyone who buys in gets a full color printed book. For 20 bucks plus shipping, that's more than a good deal to me. I don't see how in any way, shape or form, that is over priced. In fact, it's under priced. If it was just a pdf project, maybe (though honestly, the buy in isn't that much more than the Hero Pack was)

Comparing it to the ICONS material doesn't work, because it's not just in PDF form. Even the ICONS material that is available as both print and pdf cost more than what this is costing (and I should know, having preordered both the ICONS core and the Villainomicon, which still hasn't come out yet).

As for the M&M material: the only cheap M&M material have been the Threat Reports, and those are single villain books priced at 0,99. Again, not a good comparison. The core rules still cost more, and until I see them selling that (or any real supplements with more than a single character) cheaply in pdf, you can't really count that material for comparison. It just isn't the same, imho.

[drkrash]

Ah, never mind. urbwar said everything I was going to say. Happens a lot.

[urbwar]

Ah, never mind. urbwar said everything I was going to say. Happens a lot.

Well, great minds tend to think alike, so....

Although this is something I have to sadly pass on for various reasons, I think it's an interesting project.

[kevperrine]

Yes.
Be certain folks that (I think) many of you know me and my post style from other posts.

I promise that I'm not being negative.

But I do like to play devil's advocate and question the way things are being done. Not to downplay efforts or to suggest anyone is 100% wrong. But rather to ask the question for each of us (that includes me) to consider what's being done and what could be done. Similarly or differently.

I hope that my replies won't be taken as an offense or feel the need to reply defensively. Because in many cases, a defensive reply often means that you're not looking at the question or thought objectively... But rather taking it personally.

I promise. None of my thought is personal on this. I feel it's very clear that I would like to see the BASH! system and BASH! community flourish.

To help that... I'd love to have everyone give suggestions, advice and offer constructive criticisms. Any criticisms can be taken offensively, but I've learned (in graphic design) to step back and weigh the criticism from all points. Sometimes the advice or question IS *wrong* or poor. Sometimes it will give a different angle to consider. But the only way to know is to divorce yourself from the defensive and personal feeling.

That's my approach.
So that's where my reply and constructive criticism comes from.


-kev-

[drkrash]

Actually, I wanted to comment on kev’s pricing figures. I don’t disagree with his numbers; my 3rd party BASH book (to be entitled Everwatch, BTW) will be about 30 pages and will cost much, much less than $200 to produce. So we’re confident that we’ll at least break even.

By comparison, Fight! is a 247-page PDF that, well, let’s just say that it too cost me far less than $3-10 per page to produce (I’m seriously frugal with production costs!). When I wrote it, I hoped to get my money back by selling about 30 copies over a year or so. I was fortunate enough to get that money back in 2 weeks.

So that brings us to sales expectations. None of us are in this business to quit our day jobs. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to make a little profit to compensate for the time spent away from family and friends.

Using One Book Shelf as a model, if you sold a book at a $5 price point, you make $3.25 per sale. With $200 in production costs, you’d have to sell 62 copies just to break even. Honestly, that’s easier said than done. I don’t know the whole numbers of BASH’s audience (I could hazard a ballpark guess, but I won’t), but that means you need a certain percentage of the whole audience to buy your book just to get your money back.

Now, I don’t have hard numbers on the Golden Age BASH supplements that are out, but last time I checked (a few weeks ago), none of them had best seller medals. That means less than 50 copies sold. And that is at a $2 price point (the magic so-called “app pricing”).

BASH does not have ICONS’ market. Adamant has more people involved in production, the name of Steve Kenson to work wonders, and has literally given away their core rules for little or nothing since the game’s release. BASH cannot hit on a magic formula to equalize this market presence instantly. We need to produce good supplements at reasonable prices over time to generate more interest. Looking to somehow crank out awesome $2 supplements immediately isn’t going to work – not because it wouldn’t generate sales, but because they’re aren’t people willing to put in the work to get a loss in return. Look how difficult it is to get people to submit short articles for BAM – it takes time and effort to make decent stuff, and even devoted (and talented) gamers are often loath to do so (and not without reason).

Anyway. Have to go back to school to show Dracula to one of my classes.

[kevperrine]

It's not just in pdf form; everyone who buys in gets a full color printed book. For 20 bucks plus shipping, that's more than a good deal to me.

ACK!
I missed that for some reason. So much talk of products for BASH! is in PDF form I completely misread. My apologies.

Still. I feel my points and thoughts on pricing is fair to consider. Print or PDF.

In this case (assuming this is based off the idea that BASHMAN has noted before as a business plan for a neat character book project) this book is essentially a book compiled of fan material, each submitted character illustrated with the $20 pre-order price, and then edited and layed out for publication.

Great idea!
But not much *work* to do for the cost. I'm guessing there's a pricing deal between BASHMAN and the artist to give the $20 pre-order rate a good illustration payment to the artist and maybe half or less as profit on a book for editing and layout. That's a GREAT idea.
But and so... my point is... it's not alot of hard work. The art is being paid for by the submitting pre-orders, in most cases (I'd guess) will have submissions that include BASH! stats (afterall most of us pre-ordering are hard core fans), which leaves final layout and editing to complete. Not alot of work to publish to get a cool product.
Again, I think it's a great idea. But because of the business plan of this idea. I'd still think the price of the final might be lower.

Since it IS print and PDF for the pre-order submitters, maybe not a huge price drop...



-kev-

[Samuraidad]

I think this is a fair price as well.

Since I can't really give any of my Zenith Characters to the project, I would be very interested in hosting a contest for this and "purchasing" a slot for the winner.

Would that be acceptable Chris?

And what might the criteria be for such a contest? I'm intrigued.

......we now return you to your regular thread already in progess.

[MrJupiter]

Awesome! I'll dig out another villain for this project!

[Nestor]

I'd like to echo kroh's question, when's the deadline for this?

I'm interested in submitting my first stab at a BASH character (here). I could easily come up with a detailed background; in fact, most of my effort will be trying to cut it down to 100 words.