Diplomacy? Persuade? Convince? Charm?

[kevperrine]

What is the suggested skill check or other check for checking to see how a PC does in a diplomacy type situation?

In other RPGs, I tend to have the player role-play any diplomacy style conversations - then have them make a skill check with modifiers from their role-playing.

I was looking in BASH! for that option. What I found didn't lead me to any conclusions specifically. Here's what I found regarding any "persuade" type things in BASH!:

Appeal: Whenever you try to charm or persuade someone of anything, you get a +2 Multiplier Bonus.

Social Stigma: When trying to persuade or charm people who are not like you or close to you, the difficulty increases by 10 or more.

Situational Modifiers: it notes having Bonus or Penalty for being able to "convincing someone".

Victory Without Violence: notes that it is "conceivable that a Hero could simply convince a Villain to end the fight" ... "usually through good role-playing and knowledge of the Villain’s psychology, though it could be accomplished with an extended check of some sort."

Using Fame: If they have heard of you, give yourself +1 multiplier to your Mind or skill check to persuade, get information, or favors from them.

What would you suggest for this? A check? A roll/rule? Simply relegating it to role-play?
If a check, is it contested or a static DC (example?)?
Might it be an "Extended Check"? If so, what would be an example of a more difficult (longer?) check vs. an easier (quicker?) extended check?


My game-gang ran into this last Issue, as they wanted to talk to and convince a "watcher like" being to help them save innocent bystanders that they couldn't get to... Appealing to the NPC's sense of justice.


Thanks for the thoughts!
-kev-

[BASHMAN]

Well this is specifically mentioned in the extended check examples.

It depends on what you are trying to convince someone to do. If you are tricking them, use Deception/Lying or Deception/Manipulation. If you are convincing them of the potential profit of an investment, use Commerce, etc.

For the above example, I'd almost go with Social Science/Law or Humanities/Foreign Cultures as a skill roll.

However, if you don't think that any one skill works best, just use a straight Mind Roll, modified by the various modifiers such as Appeal. Also, if the subject *wants* to be convinced, that is a bonus to the roll.

Typically I'd do this at a 100 difficulty check over 5 pages.

[kevperrine]

Well this is specifically mentioned in the extended check examples.
...
Typically I'd do this at a 100 difficulty check over 5 pages.

Yes.
That seems right! And I did try an Extended Check in my game last week. It was ad-hock, and I was only passingly familiar with them but I tried it. Not for the Diplomacy, but rather for a:

"Get Off the Floating City In Space and Git Back Home" Extended Check.
A sort of timed trap, as the city was breaking up and drifting apart into space. While the PCs had to figure out a way home and rescue the 6-8 paparatzi that were with them, as well as drag the beat villains along to take them to jail.

I'm not sure I did it the best I could.

Are there any other examples on the forums for building and running more Extended Checks?
Do you have any suggestions?
Anyone?

I'm interested in learning to build them and run them effectively. This is one of the bits of D&D4 that I see potential in, but they never panned out great...
I'd like more info.... and ideas
Thanks!

-kev-

[BASHMAN]

Well, one thing that seperates BASH! extended checks from D&D Skill Challenges is that each roll there is success/fail requiring X number of successes before Y number of failures. If you're playing a fighter who doesn't have the right skills, you could do more harm than good by "helping" in the skill challenge vs. sitting it out.

The BASH! extended checks are cumulative. So if somebody rolls and gets a result of 8, that's still contributing to the total, even if it's not a great result. This was by design, as I wanted it to be possible to help even if you weren't great at a skill.

Some good examples of when I've used them is movement off the map. Not just for chase scenes, but for seeing how quickly you can arrive on the map.

For instance, in BASH! SF, the party split up to various sections of a derelict ship they found adrift. Some were in the engine room, some went to the helm, and others went to the cargo bay. There were alien monsters in the Cargo Bay.

Rather than draw the entire ship, or just tell the PCs "you'll get there in 1d3 rounds", I had the people in the Engine Room and Helm roll extended checks to see how quickly they arrived in the Cargo Bay (once they got to 50 on an Athletics/Running check). This way they still had something to do on their turns before they arrived there.

[kevperrine]

....Extended Checks.

I wanted to take this to it's own thread. I think it's worth it!
HERE

thanks!
-kev-

[CauldronOfEvil]

[quote="kevperrine"]What is the suggested skill check or other check for checking to see how a PC does in a diplomacy type situation? [quote]

You could always role-play it, but there is a Social Science/Diplomacy (M) skill in BASH:SciFi and there is always Social Science/Rhetoric (M) as well.