Guns guns guns

[The_Strangler]

Howdy heroes! I'm creating a dual gun wielding super hero today and ran into a couple questions. She has a "guns" special attack which can fire many varying types of ammo(acid, fire, etc).

I recall(cant remember where exactly) reading something about "if you have a superhero/villain that uses guns, use Special Attack and treat them as a power". Something like that. So, if I do that....

1) Could Double Taps be used in conjuction with this type of power? My initial thought is "no" and I like that as an answer. "Yes" raises more questions about it.

2) Can I put Range, Burst, and Variable on my Special Attack to essentially fire on multiple targets(in line of sight) in one panel?
ie, Guns: Special Attack 5(Range(Mid), Burst(Medium), Bonus To Hit Multiplier(+3), Bonus Damage Multiplier(+2))[Variable]

3) Does 1 Variable enhancement cover both the scenerio in question 2 AND being able to fire multiple types of ammo or should I charge 2 enhancement points against it?

Thanks,
Strangler

[Lindharin]

Here's my take on your questions:

1. Personally, I might allow it, but it wouldn't bother me to play in a game where the narrator said no. Mechanically, most of the extra attack powers are fairly balanced against each other and against Super Speed 3 (ie, one extra action, limited to attacks only, with some extra limitations to take the place of Super Speed's inherent Tiring limitation). Double Tap is a bit different than the others since it costs 1 pt instead of 2, though, so it comes down to how limiting you feel not being able to move or use powers is, etc.

2. Yes.

3. As I understand it, yes, one point of Variable can do that, but it has some restrictions and shouldn't be abused. The book says it requires narrator approval to change the "descriptors" like ice, fire, etc. And beyond that, my feeling would be that you should define a small selection of special ammo types in advance, rather than assume you can use any descriptor you want at any time without a power stunt.

[gryfn]

its generally a bad idea to combine training powers and other powers however for 2 points you can link a power to another power lust like it , so the second attack just costs 2 points

9 special attack 6 variable +1 link +2 special attack 6 variable

or
9 special attack 4 +1 hit +3 damage medium range linked
special attack 4 +1 hit +3 damage medium range

[urbwar]

To answer your first question, I'd say "no". While the description doesn't say you can't, under Weapon Technique, it says if you have a weapon that is built as a power, you can't use that ability with it, only with regular weapons. I'd use that as a benchmark for all Intense Training abilities, and not allow them to stack with other powers, even ones designed as weapons.

You could, on the other hand, not make the weapons powers. Weapon Technique can be used with Variable Enhancement, so you could use normal guns, buy Weapon Technique with the Variable enhancement, and then be able to use Double Tap. Or just do both. You have normal guns that you can use Double Tap, Weapon Technique w/variable, and a special weapon built as a power.

[Lindharin]

under Weapon Technique, it says if you have a weapon that is built as a power, you can't use that ability with it, only with regular weapons. I'd use that as a benchmark for all Intense Training abilities, and not allow them to stack with other powers, even ones designed as weapons.

I have the impression (which could be wrong) that the reason Weapon Technique is explicitly banned from applying to attacks built as powers (ie Special Attack) is to prevent stacking. You are not supposed to be able to have more than 5 ranks of Special Attack, and if you could stack on Weapon Technique it would go up to 7 potentially. It is the same reason that the Tough Martial Arts explicitly doesn't let your Brawn go above 5, etc.

Given those two abilities explicitly prevent stacking with other powers, but none of the rest do, I see that as evidence that the others can be applied more broadly.

As far as I can see there is nothing in the rules preventing you from using Intense Training abilities like Attack Weak Point, Disarm Expert, Martial Arts, etc. with powers (except as specifically limited like the Brawn cap on Tough Martial Arts). And Paired Weapons and Swift Strike can both be used with any unarmed attack, presumably including one enhanced with a Special Attack like Wolverine's claws, so I don't see any fundamental reason to limit Offhand Shooting, which already has a bigger penalty than Paired Weapons, presumably because of the extra flexibility in choosing ranged targets.

Double Taps is the only one I find questionable, since it is only 1 point, which puts it out of line with "Super Speed 3 Limit: Attacks Only" (the basis for Paired Weapons, Swift Strike, and Offhand Shooting).

[urbwar]

I was looking through "Vengeance is Nigh", and one of the sample heroes has Paired Weapons, which appear to be used with his claws. So I retract my earlier comments, as I was obviously wrong about not using intense training with weapons, etc, made from powers

[DeaconAbyss]

Ok then here is a question of a simular nature I have. Let's say I got a "mystery man" and I want to give him normal guns. It says you can buy extra effect for a normal weapon. Would it be a stretch to say the effect is "Armor Piercing Shells" as +2DM vs. "foes with Armor, the power"? Would you still be able to use weapon technique?

[BASHMAN]

Ok then here is a question of a simular nature I have. Let's say I got a "mystery man" and I want to give him normal guns. It says you can buy extra effect for a normal weapon. Would it be a stretch to say the effect is "Armor Piercing Shells" as +2DM vs. "foes with Armor, the power"? Would you still be able to use weapon technique?

IMO, Yes. You just have really nasty rounds in your "regular" gun.

[DeaconAbyss]

exactally. thats the way i took the rules after reading them over and over for 2 days...lol