Improvised Weapons

[Boost]

This never hit me before, but would you gain the strength result bonus when using an improvised weapon? If you have brawn 3 and you hit someone with a car, would you do x4+15 damage, or just x4?

[BASHMAN]

No result bonus w/ improvised weapons. The bonus is to your overall multiplier instead.

[Boost]

Okay, I can understand that, one more question though, what is the bonus for light weapons? Since they don't provide a multiplier bonus, what is the point in using one?

[Protheuz]

It can give range, area etc to your normal attack.

[kevperrine]

It can give range, area etc to your normal attack.

Like it or not, I've never found in practical in-game experience that having the ONLY "benefit" of using an improvised weapon be "it gives range, or area, or it's just cool to imagine" being good enough to a player in a *life-or-death* combat.

The players (I've gamed with) generally weigh the options.... things like:

- Is it worth taking my time/action to go "get" the improvised weapon?
- Will it take me an action, multiple actions to get?
- Will I need to make a skill/power/Str roll of some sort to pick up (or rip up) the thing I'm using?
- Will using an improvised weapon make my die roll to hit harder (because it's improvised)?

etc... etc...

I will admit that I've not played with the "best" supers players, and more often my experiences have been with players with less imagination and superhero understanding/excitement.

But still, I think it's "fair" to consider all those points. Because in the "world" of the supers doing the action of using a car/lamppost, etc... as an improvised weapon, if it WERE more challenging to do, or in the end was ANY sort of drawback - I don't think the superhero would take time to use it.
and in addition...
IN-Game for players, unless there is a BIG benefit they are usually NOT going to do it simply because of the extra action/time needed to pick up. Because in that one single action (many) players will be thinking that they MISS a chance to actively effect the battle. Giving the enemy a "free" action essentially.

So...
For me to expect any players to use that option it seems it would either need to be:
- a free action (or part of a move) to pick up an object
- gives a decent damage bonus

On top of range/area.


That's my experience from players.
Unfortunately.

But I think it's a fair one.
-kev-

[Boost]

Thanks for the feedback.

I can see the benefits of range, arc, etc. now.

[kevperrine]

Do folks think my point is off base?

If I were building my own system for supers, I'd be considering the things that happen as genre tropes in supers comics. Figuring out ways to make those things easier or with higher benefits - even if the "simulation" of it doesn't make sense.
Then again, you don't want every action sequence to come down to PCs picking up dumpsters all the time. ...

On that note - I recall the original rules for "charging" in M&M1st Edition being *that* type action. Almost too good not to do. I recall players turning and going for charges nearly every combat...
And actually now that I think about it... that's happened several times in my BASH! Narrated games. The collision rules in BASH! aren't as "borken" as they originally were (as memory serves) in M&M1e. But still... that's an issue to consider...

When characters get their actions CHANGED by their player, because seeing they have "enough speed/actions" to turn move back and charge... just to get that damage.
That starts being a problem.

Same said with the balance of picking up an improvised weapon.

But the balance needs to be there to have it be a good option at times. I suppose what I'm saying is, it's a BIG thing to balance as a designer. heheh

[dugfromthearth]

personally I would prefer improvised weapons bought as powers or stunts.

Some supers do it a lot, some don't. If you want to pick up things and use them for AoE, buy an area attack explained as using a nearby item.

I generally dislike free bonuses.

Of course that's more roleplayingish then reality based - saying people cannot do it.

[CuMorrig]

I've been playing it that if a character is next to a car or whatnot, then picking it up and hurling it is one action, not two. Doing that, improvised weapons get used, but only when they are handy. Pretty much like in the comics.

[drkrash]

I tend to agree with this or, at least, if its two actions, they can use the car for defense until they get to throw it.

I see kev's point perfectly well, but I do think there's more here to managing player expectations.

[Jukeboxer]

Also, if you want a little more from improvised weapons you could use the major/minor benefit rules as a precedent and allow a +2 dice bonus to damage for a light improvised weapon. Heavy weapons already match the major benefit.

[BASHMAN]

I tend to agree with this or, at least, if its two actions, they can use the car for defense until they get to throw it.

By Rules as Written, you can get Cover which means opponents have to make Called Shots just to hit you.