Damage v. Soak - What to Aim For

[Dragonfly]

Cool and thoughtful response, Lindharin. Thanks for that! As always, you provide an interesting study. I don't think I'd tell my players to aim for such a sweet spot while building their characters, only because I'd rather them think more in terms of concept rather than trade offs, but keeping your observations in mind as players make characters will help me to detect potentially unbalanced builds.

BTW, my desire for the option of a x10 Soak is mostly academic. Whether or not I provide the option, I don't expect to find many (if any) players in my group striving to attain that level of invulnerability. This is mostly important to me for purposes of finalizing my benchmark tables.

Best,

Dragonfly

[drkrash]

It's awesome to me that Dragonfly started this conversation because I was going to post a very similar topic tonight. Great minds and all that...

I've had occasion to play a lot more recently with my son and we've come up with a lot of interesting issues with power level. Ya see, I haven't had to make any characters for BASH, because I have almost 500 from various sources, such as this forum. Many of them have cool illos, too, which makes it more fun for my son (who's 5).

So we pick guys, throw a simple reason to fight together and go at it. But I've come to realize that each character designer has their own benchmarks, so a little pre-fight analysis is necessary before I can determine if a fight is going to be worth doing. I learned this unknowingly choosing two characters with x3 attacks, x2 damage, and x6 defense each. We quit that pretty quick.

On the plus side, paying more attention to benchmarks has also made me appreciate the Hero Point economy a lot more. When the game is working with consistent benchmarks, especially at the lower ends that seem to generally be BASHMAN's design intent, there were LOTS of times when Hero Points would have made the difference (they're too confusing for my boy, but I have to admit, combat can occasionally be a little dull without them).

Anyway. I think these are awesome observations.

[kevperrine]

I'm thinking that although it's not RAW, going with the Armor 5 might simply be more elegant sometimes, character conceptwise. Given that it IS possible to accomplish the same thing in other ways (and for about the same point totals),

I don't see what the drawback of this house rule is.

Hey Dragonfly,

Liking this thread. Considering it a potential idea for a BAM! article.

Here's my thought on this topic of allowing this as a standard rule. My thought has NOTHING to do with numbers or RAW. I would suggest that by NOT allowing to have a straight up Armor purchase to 5 so easily is one more of perception than importance to the rule.

As has been noted in this thread there are at least four other ways to GET to that goal of a higher than "normal" soak with just Brawn+Armor.
(correct me if I'm wrong, or add any others!)

The ways to improve a character's soak beyond x8 by RAW:
- Density Increase
- buying Armor w/ Extra Effect vs. a certain kind of damage.
- cosmic might affect soak rolls, as it affects brawn rolls
- Boost 2 (Brawn - Only for Soak)

My point.
It's possible if a player wants to make it happen. However, it's not immediately easy (as just buying Armor 5). That fact makes makes having characters with x10 soak very very rare.
Maybe that's a design goal. It's rare and it should be. However, if it's easy to do/see. It won't BE that rare.

Again ... maybe that's by design to have a perception of being difficult/rare.


Sidebar.
Perception can be a reality in games.
See my new thread on this theme:
http://bashtalk.org/modules.php?name=Fo ... opic&t=628

[BASHMAN]

Boost cannot raise soak above x8, because it raises a stat to a max of 5.

[Dragonfly]

Hiya BASHMAN,

Boost cannot raise soak above x8, because it raises a stat to a max of 5.

My bad. I guess I was seizing the following language in the write-up for the power:

"The point of the power is NOT to have characters who break the ceiling of 5 in a stat- though the Narrator can allow this if they want to." (pg. 54)

The second clause suggests/suggested (at least to me) that breaking the ceiling of 5 is "legal" (slightly more legal than just a house rule) as long as the GM approves.

I guess I was applying a "loose construction" of the BASH UE constitution. Thanks for clearing this up.

Best,

Dragonfly