The Great SuperHero BASH! UP wiki (the BASH! fan project)

[kevperrine]

HELLO HEROES!


Welcome to...
"THE GREAT SUPERHERO BASH! UP Wiki Project"
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This thread is dedicated to all ideas (good, bad, or ugly) that might help we fans in creating an all encompassing Wiki-project for everything a BASH! fan or Narrator might want/need in playing, reading or creating for the BASH! Super Heroic RPG.

All ideas are welcome. Please post references, images, ideas, links, suggestions, etc... etc... This can be a fun collaboration of BASH! fans - a resource for all.



My name is Kevin Perrine.
I am a new fan of BASH! UE.
I will be helping to begin the guiding process in creating this project. I'm more than happy to have other volunteers in these beginning stages. And eventually (actually very soon if all goes well) we will have a nice wiki page project to collect all these ideas and more.

As folks learn and understand the fun and power of Wiki projects - fans will come to learn they can easily update and upload their own content all by themselves. THIS will aid in the expansion of this BASH! fan wiki project.

Wikis are wonderful little web page platforms that allow anyone to add to the project with very little experience and no need for web design experience. Wikipedia is the best example of how a wiki project can expand and be the "go-to resource" for the project subject.


Quickly about me...
My experience in the gaming world is pretty extensive, both as a hobby and professional. I primarily have done Graphic Design, Illustration and a touch of rule development and writing for various games. You may have seen (or gamed with) some of my work from WizKids! original HeroClix lines or M&M's Freedom City book.
As for wiki and web page design... I have experience in both and have come to find that for hobby/fan based material the Wiki format is the best way to go. I have created extensive Wiki "Campaign Bibles" for every home game and RPG project I've been involved in for the last 6-7 years.


Which Wiki farm?
As a part of earning my Masters Degree (Marketing) 2 years ago I did an extensive project on understanding the use of Wiki farms. From that project I came to find and exclusively use "Google Sites" as my primary Wiki farm. My choice was exclusively based on the resource, format, and ease of use. I have no affiliation or political/business interest for Google or any other Wiki farm. Google (in my experience) is the best I've found.


Beginning - Tuesday, September 7th... I will have a full working Wiki page for this project. Ready for fans and creators to begin adding content.


In this thread, please post corrections, ideas, suggestions, resources and answers.
PLEASE be polite and helpful. Please list references or examples when offering points. Please focus on SOLUTIONS to problems - so if you find or have a problem, try to give a solution when possible.


Thank you
Good luck and Enjoy!

-kev-
"...with great power..."

[kevperrine]

Great points.
*my thoughts on these, coming soon*

Some of the things I really liked about the DC Icons conversions is how they all share the same character sheet format and art style - this really makes the project feel unified.

THIS
is a point I'd like to address immediately.

How would we like to SEE our BASH! character builds/conversions laid out on our new Wiki?

I have two thoughts:


a.
Contributors upload jpgs of your sheet which will be viewable on the wiki after clicking on a character's name.
PRO: Folks can use whatever format/program they like, then upload a jpg.
CON: The sheets will vary in style look. (which might also be a "PRO" to those with company-styled sheets). Also, contributors will need to know how to make a jpg and upload it to a host site. (I've found uploading to the main wiki clogs the speed of the wiki, so I usually upload ALL images on the wiki page to Image Shack)


b.
I could build a simple table format TEMPLATE. Contributors would then copy/paste that template and retype all their info into it, then save as a new character page.
PRO: Look/style are the nearly exactly the same.
CON: retyping or duplicating efforts when needing to upload a new character.



NOTE - I am also working (slowly) on an Excel character builder which WILL have a "wiki format" tab to copy/paste into a wiki.

I believe there are other sheets out there that do this.

Another winning aspect is that all the powers are presented in a simple format which would be a winning quality to use with this project as a Marvel BASH conversion would serve to show new (or prospective) purchasers the versatility of this game (“Yeah, BASH UE can do Rogue/Gambit/Ironman/Dr. Strange!").

Too much information and detail on intricate interpretations of the powers might confuse these new people; possibly turning them away from BASH (yeah, this is an extreme scenario that worries me more than it should). On the other hand, very detailed and tweaked powers (via the many Enhancements and Limitations) would really show how capable this system is!

What I would suggest (and enjoy) would be to have the option to have MULTIPLE builds for any character.
For example:

Spiderman, Ultimate (by kevperrine)
Spiderman, classic Ditko (by aslan)
Spiderman, classic (by greenkarl)
Spiderman, modern (by Mr. Jupiter, with house rule addition)

etc... etc...

That way everyone could have different builds. Radically different or tweaks or house rules, etc...
And a Narrator, reader or player wishing ideas - can see multiple ways to BUILD Spidey's web-shooters or whatever.

This makes me wonder if it would be possible to have the sheet present both a simple and strait-forward power list and an alternate, more detailed (and accurate) descriptions of the character’s powers (though this could ‘up’ the point cost of the character).

Any thoughts?

I'm not following completely here.

I think ONE thing I can do (regardless of us deciding on a jpg or table/text version on the wiki to present characters), I would like to have a TEMPLATE for basic layout. And it could include things like:

- who built this version
- short bio/history of the character
- any links for more info on the character
- and Conversion Notes: to explain how/why you used what you did or why you're choosing this-not-that for the character conversion or history of the character.


things like that.

thoughts?
-kev-

[MrJupiter]

I was thinking that, like the DC Icons conversions, including the hero's/villain's background story might be a waste of valuable character sheet real estate. Most people know the general histories of these characters or can at least google-up the basics: these things are always evolving anyways.

How about a sheet where the character image is in the lower middle, Stats and combat info along top, simple powers list on one side and complicted power descriptions on the right. [Just layout ideas.]

It might be cool to include typical power stunts pulled off by the hero (via Hero Points), usual Subplots (i.e. Personal: Love Interest in Secret ID - Mary Jane), Mental Malfunction ("With great power comes great responsibility").

The detailed power descriptions will require the most space on the character sheet (if that route is taken): certainly gadget heavy heroes will use up a lot of this area with all their toys (or at least samples of the regularly used ones).

[MrJupiter]

Ooo. Just read your posts kevperrine. I love the multiple builds idea which gives viewers multiple ideas on how to build the hero in question. I love a formatted Excel sheet character builder to keep builds to a set structure. I love the conversion notes so the viewer understands the "builder's" reasoning.

[MrJupiter]

The idea behind the two different power builds was to have options so that the viewer could see the hero’s powers presented in a basic format suitable for gaming with younger kids (kind of like the way Icons merely lists the powers name and rank. The more complex format would show lots more of the enhancements and limitations that really define how that basic power is tailored to that particular hero: appealing to the advanced gamer who is ready to handle more detail.

Your suggestion of listing multiple builds for a hero by different contributors nicely gets around this. A Narrator wishing to run an Avengers, one-shot game could pull off and print out detailed roster versions for advanced players or simplified ones for a bunch of 10-year olds. This is cooler! Separating different builds opens up a bit more space on the character sheet for things like background summaries or more gadgets/headquarters/super vehicles.

[MrJupiter]

… It might be cool to include typical power stunts pulled off by the hero (via Hero Points), usual Subplots (i.e. Personal: Love Interest in Secret ID - Mary Jane), Mental Malfunction ("With great power comes great responsibility"). …

Oh yeah, and Suggested Fame (for those using that optional rule).

[Jukeboxer]

Kevin, thanks for taking this on! It will be great to have an online resource like this. I agree that we need to keep the character pages as uniform as possible, so I guess a form is the best way to achieve this - especially if it is easy to cut and paste text into the form... I also like the possibility of multiple builds for the same character. Heck, Marvel and DC have continuously re-invented characters over the years, so there are many versions to choose from.

As far as images, I think we could find some in forums for other games. M&M's Roll Call section comes to mind.
As time permits

[Samuraidad]

… It might be cool to include typical power stunts pulled off by the hero (via Hero Points), usual Subplots (i.e. Personal: Love Interest in Secret ID - Mary Jane), Mental Malfunction ("With great power comes great responsibility"). …

Oh yeah, and Suggested Fame (for those using that optional rule).

Man, I REALLY like where this is going!! Since we are doing Marvel, my vote would definitely be to include the Agents of Atlas and the Thunderbolts. And once I get more familiarity with the rules I wouldn't mind statting them out. Well, that and Night Crawler.

Btw, Marvel's official page (www.marvel.com) has really good character pics, descriptions, and even includes a scale of attributes (like Strength and Intelligence) that rated by both the Marvel staff and fans. It is really interesting to see how varied the Marvel ratings can be from the fan ratings. The Marvel ratings tend to much more conservative. Interestingly, I just looked at Namora's write up and the Marvel ratings are all 1s (out of 7 as a max). A strength of 1? That's ridiculous! Thank goodness for the fan comparisons!

[Kinetic]

Kevin,

I know you said you use Google Sites exclusively but just to throw out other options, I can host whatever wiki software you'd like on this domain. Just let me know whichever route you'd like to go. I just want to make sure the options are all on the table.

[kevperrine]

I know you said you use Google Sites exclusively but just to throw out other options, I can host whatever wiki software you'd like on this domain. Just let me know whichever route you'd like to go. I just want to make sure the options are all on the table.

Hey thanks Kinetic.
Good thought, and actually I have thought of options like this (in the past for other sites). What I've come down to is - my thought here in using Google Sites (no offense to you or anyone) is that primarily:

- Google is likely to be around for-a-very long time. I've seen so many other wiki-farms come/go or just disappear or not be updated, etc...

- Google will probably outlive us all as a company and their Google Sites (another name for their Wiki farm) updates regularly with new features and all sorts of goodies.

- Google also has a ton of other formats/programs many people use (like Google Docs)...

- Google accounts are free (currently) and most people have one, if not you can make one just to update THIS site (that's the ONLY negative I know for Google Sites - you must have an account).

- Lastly, on the above point (again, no offense to anyone) but I think it's best to not have anyone host a thing like this when places like Google are options. What would happen if you decided you hated BASH! and only wanted to play Champions and decided to delete everything? Or (more realistic) what if you hosting ability ended or machine lost everything, etc...

- Plus... there's NO work for anyone setting up any wiki software or anything like that.



Hope that makes sense.
Any other options to be aware of? If something's BETTER, I won't stand in it's way.
-kev-

[kevperrine]

Man, I REALLY like where this is going!! Since we are doing Marvel,

GREAT! I'm glad folks are starting to dig the idea.

One thing I'd note.
I do not just see this as Marvel. While my "comic-fu" is almost exclusively Marvel, I'd love to have folks updating and creating everything from: DC to Wildstorm to Image to Dark Horse, etc.... as well as conversions of other Super RPG iconics such as: Freedom City (M&M), teams from V&V, Champions, etc... Not to mention ANY other wild conversion from movies, cartoons, etc...

So "Make Mine Marvel!" but for this project lets:
Do as many "BASH Up Builds!" as possible "B.U.B."

hehehe.... that was an on the spot silly acronym. Anybody got anything better to give our BASH! wiki site some fun mottos?!!



thanks!
-kev-

[kevperrine]

I should have the working template up by tonight (starting work on it now). I've made many, so it should be easy. Actually, I'm so used to it - it's VERY easy. But I'm gonna take some time and do a little work with images and such to make it a "BASH!-style" looking site.


On that... I know BASHMAN's been very open and cool about folks making content for the game, but I do NOT want to take anything for granted, or do anything without consent.


One big question for BASHMAN. Is it cool if I were to use YOUR imagery and trade-dress-design? I have already pulled all of the images (of characters and whatnot) from my purchased copy of the BASH! UE PDF (I do this for my personal campaign use sometimes).
If so, I can lay in your BASH! "iconic" characters as art for this project's pages. Same said - for using the BASH! and Basic-Action-Game logos and covers, etc...

Is it cool with you to use those things?

Lastly on clearing things to use. I planned to copy/paste some of your writing guidelines and such for the site (from the forums). Is that okay to grab info from your posts here to use? And how about MINOR rule snippets (only short quotes if any) because I usually like referencing Book/Page # for any specifics.
For Example:
If a character build uses the "FAME" optional rules, it might be cool to use the first sentence note on that, then refer the viewer to "xx page, in the core book" for more.


Or better question... What's taboo that you'd like us NOT to use/do for this fan based BASH! Character Build and Resource wiki?

thoughts?!
-kev-

[Samuraidad]

Man, I REALLY like where this is going!! Since we are doing Marvel,

GREAT! I'm glad folks are starting to dig the idea.

One thing I'd note.
I do not just see this as Marvel. While my "comic-fu" is almost exclusively Marvel, I'd love to have folks updating and creating everything from: DC to Wildstorm to Image to Dark Horse, etc.... as well as conversions of other Super RPG iconics such as: Freedom City (M&M), teams from V&V, Champions, etc... Not to mention ANY other wild conversion from movies, cartoons, etc...

So "Make Mine Marvel!" but for this project lets:
Do as many "BASH Up Builds!" as possible "B.U.B."

hehehe.... that was an on the spot silly acronym. Anybody got anything better to give our BASH! wiki site some fun mottos?!!



thanks!
-kev-

Great! I like the idea of not just limiting ourselves to Marvel. I think maybe I'll start small and move from there. Once we have your template we can know more I think.

I love this idea!

Btw, LOL@ "BUB"...perfect!

[MrJupiter]

This is great! The idea to include more than Marvel is excellent! I'd love to see BASHed Crusaders, Crushers, Destroyers and other awwesome V&V characters.

Unfortunately, I have ZERO familiarity about wiki-ing: though I've broused many such sites (mostly Wikipedia). Any pointers?

[AslanC]

Might I suggest also allowing BASH-ups! (tm pending ) of other Super RPG characters? Like the ones from V&V, M&M, SAS, etc...?

Just a thought