UE: First Impressions

[Sijo]

I’ve been trying to buy it (after getting the Basic Edition) for the past two weeks, but problems with my bank account prevented me. Now that it’s fixed, I downloaded the game yesterday. The following are my first comments and questions. Keep in mind I haven’t finished reading everything- I realize I could have missed or misunderstood something!

(Btw sorry if this long, but I figured, putting it all in its own thread would be less difficult than tracking half a dozen other ones.)

-The addition of campaign levels over and below Street Level is very useful and well done. I’m particularly impressed by the Cosmic Level material- you hardly ever see those in games, often being dismissed as “too hard to play!”

-I get the impression that it is OK now for Heroes to have Stats of 1, or even 0? That’s a great idea, and something I felt the original version lacked (not every superhero has the strength and agility of a football star- some are quite unimpressive without their powers!)

-The Powers Categories seem a little mixed up. Usually these are arranged by Type of Powers or by Effect. Here we have both: Bio-Manipulation, Mental, (and Cosmic) kind of have a theme; Perception and Movement powers are usually used to round out powersets rather than standing in their own (you can base a character around one –a Speedster, say- but it is less common) ; Combat is both Attack and Defense (why not split it up?) and Mastery is BOTH about theme (except the player chooses it) AND a variety of effects. Personally, I prefer to arrange powers by theme (and then subdivide them by use.) But that’s just me.
(Note I didn’t list Intense Training as a category- that’s because I consider those Skills, not powers- and you even admit it yourselves! I’m not saying they shouldn’t be included, just not classed as Powers.)

-The powers themselves are OK, and I see you’ve added many ones that were missing in the original. Great!

-About Alternate Powers: why are these not listed by themselves? Most of them are pretty well established ones. Is it because they have the same statistics (cost etc.) as its “parent power”? (I’m assuming they do, anyway?)
(And btw, how come Astral Projection isn’t automatically Invisible? That isn’t only typical, but it would justify making it cost more than ghost form.)

-Here’s one that I’ve wondered about from the start; why don’t Skills cost points? This is a big difference from nearly every other point-based game I’ve seen. Is it because they’re not combat-related? (Admittedly, in those other systems, characters tend to be LOADED with skills just because they can be, to unrealistic levels; most heroes aren’t that gifted.)
Speaking of which, giving characters skills based on their Agility and Mind numbers is a bit odd to me. Yes, I can see it explains their potential, but skills are also the result of the training and experiences of the character. Yes I know you can increase or decrease the number of skills in various ways, but they sound unnecessarily complicated to me. I’d give each Player Character one skill to start with (with a specialty, if desired) according to his or her occupation; maybe two (to represent a hobby) and an extra one if the player convinces me that it fits the character design (a reward for good creation.) More Skills could be learned in play but the character would have to spend time to learn them (could be between issues though).

-Similarly, I wondered why Advantages and Disadvantages didn’t cost points, and were instead paired against each other. Not all characters happen to have the exact same number of advantages and problems (in fact few do.) I’m glad there’s an optional rule for that now, I’d definitely use it. (Or if, they have to be paired for balance, then require them to be related in some way- A hero with Celebrity would likely have at least one Enemy, for example.)
(Also, some of the Advantages were more like Powers, and some of the Disadvantages like Weaknesses, but that requires more specific case-by-case analysis.)

-Hero Points and Setbacks: I like these. It’s a great way to make sure a character can work in a power level too strong (or too weak) for him/her. One question: what happens if the campaign level goes up (or down) as time goes? Like maybe the campaign takes a turn for the Cosmic (or conversely, becoming more “Street Level”); a character’s bonus (or penalty) might suddenly become too strong (or too weak). Can the starting points be reset or eliminated?

-I dislike the term “mental malfunction”-it makes it sound like there’s something crazy about wanting to be a hero. Well, maybe there is if looked at in a cynical way, but it is perfectly Ok in the comics, so it sounds odd here. Besides, it also sounds more serious than it really is, since it has no actual rules effect (that I‘ve noticed so far.) I’m not saying it’s a pointless feature, in fact I like the idea of listing a character’s motivations (it helps with roleplaying) I’d just prefer it be renamed something else- “Personality” maybe.

-OK, this really baffles me: Why don’t Power Limitations beyond the first one count anymore? Is this a way to discourage the players from taking too many? It doesn’t seem to be a problem in other games. Why even allow more than one Limitation then? How about require one limitation for every enhancement?

That’s all for now. I’ll post more questions or suggestions later if I have them. Be assured, I’ve enjoyed reading this book, and I am looking forward to more BASH! Products in the future.

[BASHMAN]

-Here’s one that I’ve wondered about from the start; why don’t Skills cost points? This is a big difference from nearly every other point-based game I’ve seen. Is it because they’re not combat-related? (Admittedly, in those other systems, characters tend to be LOADED with skills just because they can be, to unrealistic levels; most heroes aren’t that gifted.)

They do. You just get a certain number for free. If you want more ranks, you buy levels in Skillful, each rank gives you two more skill slots. In essence a skill slot is worth 1/2 a character point. This is why if you are spending XP, a skill slot costs 3XP and a point of powers costs 6XP.

If you want to make a character with less skills, just take the "Unskilled" Disad- OR - double up your slots into some skills. So if you have Agility 4 and don't want 4 skills, take Athletics x5 Stealth x5 instead.

Astral Projection?

I just never assumed the person was "always" invisible. When a character like Dr. Strange would do this, I figured he was using an invisibility effect as well as an Astral Projection effect. It's also much easier to simply add Invisibility to the character than to make it a permanent feature of the power and take it away when you don't want it.

Ads & Disads

If they cost points, they could be more easily abused. Likewise, there would be the temptation to make some worth more points and others worth less. Once we open that box, we are having 400 point characters instead of 40, as we now have to make the powers more expensive, stats more expensive, etc. to compensate; and that would be counter-productive to the design goal. But like you said, the rules options allow you to use points for Ads and Disads if you want, particularly if they are not 1:1. There is also a nice option for Disads to give you Hero Points when they come up instead of giving you a free Advantage.

what happens if the campaign level goes up (or down) as time goes? Like maybe the campaign takes a turn for the Cosmic (or conversely, becoming more “Street Level”); a character’s bonus (or penalty) might suddenly become too strong (or too weak). Can the starting points be reset or eliminated?

I decide what the "Point Total" for the game is every issue. So when the Heroes were facing a street gang, that was a 30 point game. Our 35 point hero had a 5 Setbacks; but if he didn't the game would have no challenge at all for him. He would have breezed through everything, compared to the 25 point Heroes who got 5 Hero Points and were able to pull off really cool things. Later in the campaign, when the Heroes were fighting an eldritch dragon from another dimension, I said "Tonight's issue is a 40 point game" and doled out Hero Points accordingly.

-I dislike the term “mental malfunction”-it makes it sound like there’s something crazy about wanting to be a hero. Well, maybe there is if looked at in a cynical way, but it is perfectly Ok in the comics, so it sounds odd here. Besides, it also sounds more serious than it really is, since it has no actual rules effect (that I‘ve noticed so far.) I’m not saying it’s a pointless feature, in fact I like the idea of listing a character’s motivations (it helps with roleplaying) I’d just prefer it be renamed something else- “Personality” maybe.

Feel free to rename it. There is a reason for it. Notice there are no "Mental Disadvantages" in the game. These were the sorts that were the MOST prone to abuse in other games in my past experience, and yet at the same time, the superhero genre it is UBIQUITOUS that there is "something not 100% right about the people who dress up in tights and get into fights". Batman has a vengence issue, Spider-Man has guilt, Superman is a boyscout afraid to cut loose with his true strength, the Hulk is a raging monster, etc. I won't bother mentioning the villains.

For some characters, it is a personality quirk. In some cases, this is the reason why they are doing what they do. But in other cases, there's just something wrong with them (See Moon Knight or the Joker).

But "Personality" or "Personality Traits" is a perfectly fine name if you like it. I don't see a rules revision happening anytime soon, however in the superheroes line, and the "Heroic Scale" lines of Sci-Fi and Fantasy don't have Mental Malfunction (they do have Mental Disadvantages).

-OK, this really baffles me: Why don’t Power Limitations beyond the first one count anymore? Is this a way to discourage the players from taking too many? It doesn’t seem to be a problem in other games. Why even allow more than one Limitation then? How about require one limitation for every enhancement?

It is math and game balance. Something that makes BASH! unique is powers are 1-5 points instead of dozens to hundreds. Part of why this is possible is that it does not take a "kitchen sink" approach to powers, limitations, and enhancements. You are free to have multiple limitations on a power; I do this all the time in my character designs; not because it is required, or it saves me any more points, but because it makes sense for the character, it fits the theme or concept I'm building, etc.

If I allowed you to take off 5 points form a 5 point power, that power would cost 0 points. Now I see your idea about having 1 Enhancement per Limitation, but that gives you a power with WAY too many enhancements then. You'll see 1 point power with 5 points of Enhancements, etc.

The other option; make powers more expensive so that every possible limitation is allowed to be assessed, would take away one of the things that makes BASH! unique: its simplicity and ease to build a character. If powers cost 30-300 points, it would be just like a dozen other superhero game systems.

[Sijo]

Thanks for the concise response, Mr. Bashman! It isn't often you get those from a game's designer, much less to a newbie!

About Skills, I got that you could fix their number with Skillful and Unskilled. Its having a starting number based on their Agility and Mind that seems unintuitive to me; again, skills come from training and experience, so they should mainly be a function of the character's background.

As for Astral Projection, in nearly *every* case I've ever seen, the astral body is Invisible- even Doctor Strange (judging from a couple of stories in which he was stuck in Astral form without his magic) couldn't become visible at will. It makes sense too, otherwise every dead soul would appear whenever they wanted.

I've also been checking the Archetypes. I really like them, though they are a little, shall we say, familiar? (But then, let's be honest here, the first thing most of us do with rulesets like these is convert characters from other sources, might as well help things along. ) I've been thinking, however, that for speed of character creation, Templates for Powersets and Personality Types (as opposed to the basically full-character descriptions of the Archetypes) would be very useful, ex. say one of my villains has been cornered by the heroes and rather than be captured takes his own monster-creating serum to fight them. Instant superstrong mad-scientist! Just take the Mad Scientist template and give him the Brick Powerset. See how it works? These kind of templates could also go in the character creation section as examples to inspire the players.

Reading this book is giving me many interesting ideas, I may post them around here soon.