Clarification on Scan

[Lindharin]

Hi,

I'm a little confused by Scan. The first paragraph starts with:

You have the ability to detect the presence of a certain thing, or you can examine something and identify its basic components, energy output, etc. When scanning an area, describe what you are scanning for.

Do you need to define the "certain thing" (from the first sentence) when you buy the power, or when you use the power? How broad or variable is the "certain thing"? Is this like a Star Trek tri-corder that has been used to scan for anything the episode writer wants it to?

I did a quick search in the pdf, and it didn't find any archetypes that have this power. Are there any well known comic characters who have it (or at least occasionally power stunt it)?

Finally, I realize the mechanics are a little different, but conceptually what is the difference between Scan and the Sense X power? Does Scan (maybe limited to only work on X) give more details than Sense X?

[BASHMAN]

When you use the power, you define what you are scanning for. So you might say "Scan for humanoid life-forms on that moon" or "Scan for the nearest exit to this building". You can also scan an object to determine what it is "This life-form appears to be carbon-based, but has three hearts". So it is like a tri-corder.

Scan is much more powerful than Sense X, but it is used actively, while Sense X is a passive ability. Sense X is looking for something specific defined when you create the power- but it's only in your immediate area (loosely defined intentionally). However, if any X comes near you, you'll know it immediately.

Scan is used actively. You can Scan to find X whenever you want to (or for Y, or Z, or Orange, if you want to) but if you're not actively scanning, X could walk right up behind you and you won't know it. Of course, with Scan, your range is much greater- you can find all the X on the planet with Scan, while Sense X is much more localized.

[Lindharin]

Thanks, that helps a lot.

[danbuter]

So I should just Scan for gold .

[gryfn]

well since the advantage resources well make a character as rich as you want , there's not a whole lot of reason to take get rich quick powers,

[BASHMAN]

You could scan for gold. Much of what you find will be:
A. Already being mined
B. In vaults
C. Unable to be mined.

You will find *some* that is none of the above though you could use to enrich yourself. Not that many Heroes would do that.

[Sunslinger]

I was just about to open a topic on scan and found this one.

As a gamemaster with a hero owning a Super Vehicle with scanners I am a bit worried about the Scan Power unbalancing a game as it is too universal.
I understand that you can find everything with scanners be it as broad or unique as you wish. So a good enough Scanner make all adventures around finding something obsolete. The only exception would be things that are specifically protected. But in my opinion such protection should be scarce. So allowing scan rules out quite a few themes of adventures. Combine that with a Teleport ability and not just search but nearly all Search and Rescue missions are something trivial. Sure I can come up with ideas to counter that. But the defenses against a 2 or 3 points power would have to be elaborate every time or there is no suspense.
What do you think?

[BASHMAN]

Star Trek everyone had teleporters and tricorders (Scan power), faster than light comm systems. And yet, numerous times they'd be trapped on a planet with no way of knowing it had life on it, etc.

How does this happen? The Narrator controlled Redshirt of that episode said "There is some Madeupium in the atmosphere, and it's interfering with the tricorders, teleporters, and comm system. I guess we have to land the ship on the planet and do a visual survey, Captain."

[BASHMAN]

Also, sometimes the scanner would break, or have some other reason for not working.

You can easily plot devices, rather than actually doing write-ups of "Immunity to Scan" for everything.

Scan also tells you that something is there; it does not give exact coordinates necessarily. So you could say:

"I'm getting readings of 3 lifeforms there in the hills; let's go check it out". So there is still a search aspect.

[kevperrine]

As a gamemaster with a hero owning a Super Vehicle with scanners I am a bit worried about the Scan Power unbalancing a game as it is too universal.
I understand that you can find everything with scanners be it as broad or unique as you wish. So a good enough Scanner make all adventures around finding something obsolete.
...
What do you think?

I don't think it's as rough (to be worried about as Narrator) as you think. My opinion...

Information IS what "ROLE"-play is all about. Allowing the players to GET information isn't a bad thing, having THEM ask to get information (with their powers/abilities or investigating) is also much better than just Narrator exposition.
But my point is...
The adventures can't really continue WITHOUT the players getting information. So I don't worry about them getting it, I simply think about how I give the info and control of what they get - based on how well they do on investigative questioning, i.e. role-play. or based on their abilities/powers and in the end the die rolls. Then you can consider what protections the thing to be scanned has or what other complications might hinder the scan (for example: give HeroPoints for the fact that a massive storm is causing scan problems, etc...)

To come at it from another angle.
Have you looked at the numbers?
The scan is pretty tough to achieve high detail depending what you're scanning for and how big of an area.
Consider:

Mr. Tech's "Scan-o-tron 4000" has Scan x4, he get's to add his Mind x3 Multiplier Bonus. He wants to scan the region for the distinct signature that Rad-Master's radiation footprint. So he begins wide looking for:
- any radiation high enough to be Rad-Master's signature [I'd call it base a "rare" 20 Diff]
- in the region (state) hoping to find a hideout [x2 Diff]

So...
Mr. Tech is rolling 2d6x7 for a 40 Difficulty.
On average he'll get ~49.
Okay...
So the player succeeds. However, even with that pretty good x7 MB and an average roll the amount of info he get's isn't a game breaker. The info is based on the better he does against the Diff. At 9 over, that's not bad but also not pinpoint. So I'd reply:

"Excellent, the "Scan-o-tron" returns three sources in a more localized area. One is the city's power grid control campus. The second is located somewhere beneath the local U.R.G.E.N.T. facility. And the third is showing a protected source about 550' below surface in the Bay, it is likely to be some sort of submersible since the Bay's depth is nearly double that in that region."
You could do a follow-up scan on each source or scan the region again with more detailed parameters (the Diff will change). Or you could begin to investigate in other ways. What would you like to do?

As a Narrator, I can determine:
- the Power Grid is beign, no bad guys there.
- the submersible is actually a US military sub.
- the U.RG.E.N.T. facility could prove daunting to continue scanning or investigating. BUT - surprise, surprise... The U.R.G.E.N.T. facility is really not much more than an above ground safe-house... and Rad-Master's base is beneath the facility! And he's using it as cover.

NOW...
You have three options to spread out the search and the adventure. Opening the investigation to complications and role-play with the various people at the sites.
Not to mention is Rad-Master detected the scans that Mr. Tech is doing, and may send minions to booby-trap the Power Grid!!


Check me folks...
Did I miss anything? Is that akin to what you'd do?
-kev-

[Baelor]

Have I been doing it wrong by requiring a mind check to use Scan?

If I am correct in this, then there is always human [or superhuman] error involved, so no Scan is 100% accurate.

The other thing I have done is give Hero Points or Dice to the Scanning character's player in order to ensure that the scan turns up only what I want it to show. That way, the player who spent the points on Scan gets something for his trouble, but the plot may continue. Depending on the type of player, you could even scale the number of Hero Points depending on the creativity of the player in giving a reason for his Scan not functioning.

[Sunslinger]

Thanks for the replies!

Nearly all of the ways described to deal with scanners are about thinking of ways why they do not work. That is exactly what I come up with when I think about dealing with scanners. But I personally don't like to have powers that are so powerful or such a suspense-killer that I have to come up with an explanation again and again why they do not work.
Because the Scanner is allowed to add Mind and Scan I find that most results are pretty accurate. And - as stated above - you can always narrow down the search area once you found any results thus decreasing the difficulty.

[BASHMAN]

Then the simple answer is to disallow the power for Heroes in your campaign.

[Sunslinger]

The thing is, I am not against scanners per se but the versatility and reach are probably giving me a bit of a headache. Perhaps I should think about a way to decrease the reach drastically while not making them useless. Probably more like a versatile Sense X...

[kevperrine]

The thing is, I am not against scanners per se but the versatility and reach are probably giving me a bit of a headache. Perhaps I should think about a way to decrease the reach drastically while not making them useless. Probably more like a versatile Sense X...

I still don't get why you worry or concern yourself with Scan.
I've always liked the GM adage that if a player in your game MAXES out a skill/power... that means they REALLY want to be good at it and be exciting in game play. They want to shine.
SO LET THEM!
Use what you're scared of as a "feature" not a "bug". Give them dozens of chances to use it. Watch them "win" in awe. Let them get to the scene of the crime... Let them chase down the "xx" in their Scan.
Who cares??
Use the knowledge that they WILL Scan and go to build your adventures. Let them win lots and then on occassion, have a villain that KNOWS they use that level of Scan and use it against them - pitting them into Deathtraps and or wild goose chases. I could easily see Batman's villain - the Riddler doing this!

Don't be scared and nix powers (unless it doesn't fit your genre), enjoy the powers. Don't psyche yourself out into thinking they're game breakers... Walk through what the Justice League or Avengers or X-men would do if they used similar powers. How would the writer challenge them to continue the story???

Be a creative Narrator, not a restricting one.
my humble opinion
-kev-