Very Basic Question

[BentonGrey]

Chris, he's got Second Nature on Healing and Summoning, not Super Speed.

hmm, I wouldn't probably allow swift strike to stack with super speed, although I don't think there's anything saying you can't I tend to leave Intensive Training Powers (swift strike isn't an enhancement) in the hands of non-super heroes for the most part, but not allow stacking between these and super powers anyway.

Yeah, I could see that. On the other hand, even Superman could learn Kung Fu if he wanted to. On reflection I don't know that the other hero is actually unbalanced. He's fast, he's agile, but he's not tough, so when someone hits him it's going to hurt. I think he's mostly okay. The double attack won't be that useful on villains, and there are already rules in the book for allowing for multiple attacks on minions through the Domino Effect. I suppose the end result was really just close to that, as he ended up attacking one minion, KOing him, then moving on to the next, etc.

Summoning allows one creature to "act" but all to move, so only one would be able to attack when summoned.

I don't see why the summoners second nature would allow his minions to all attack the same round. If they all have a second nature in something then perhaps the one that is allowed to attack might get to do something else.

if the minions themselves have some sort of superspeed then it looks like they might be able to do more from the rules as is.

I would also rule that he can summon up to 6 minions in total. He can bring 1-6 out in a round but no more. If he summons a 60 hit monster out in first part of his super speed round he isn't going to be able to summon another one. He's put his mojo into that 1 wee beastie. He doesn't however even need super speed to conjur 3 minions with 20 hit points a piece or 6 with 10 hp.

At least that's how I understand it - but I've stayed away from summoners so I might be wrong.

EDIT: although re-reading what you've said I might allow you do use super speed to summon 3 monsters out each with 20 hit points that are allowed to attack if you're using all your super speed actions this way. - so yeah I guess you're right in that they'd get three attacks in your go, but they would be relatively weak say compared to someone just with super speed 5 and super strength for example.

I would draw the line at giving all your beasties superspeed (or eqivalent) as I would think that's being a little twinky, at least for this level of game - but they could take some sort of Intense Training Power - remembering the dice modifier for both attacks. - this would probably be better if you summon one or two more potent creatures.

Hmm, I see your point. I like your explanation of "he's spent his mojo on the 60 point one." The trouble with my player's build is that I (mistakenly, I'm thinking at this point) allowed him to give his creature an action as it was summoned. Thus, his turn looked like this:
Panel 1: Summon creature (1 60 point earth spirit), attack with creature
Panel 2: Dismiss creature as free action, summon another set (two 30 point fire spirits with super speed), take two attacks with creatures
Panel 3: Dismiss creatures as free action, summon another creature (one 60 point air spirit), take an attack with creature.

I'm thinking simply forcing summoned creatures to drop to the bottom of the initiative order and not be able to act until everyone else has gone, as per some of Chris's comments elsewhere on the forums, will fix this problem.

What do y'all think?

[WaylanderPK]

Hi, few things. Even with Second Nature I'm not sure you can use Healing in a page you use super speed. (See quote below)

Its tempting to do but I think you run the risk of creating a pushing monster - pushing 50 hits for a hero dice doesn't seem too bad when your getting 35 of them back on average (for a 5 level Heal)

Summoning Second Nature plus Super Speed, Just say no, its not very comic bookey imho to have a summoner pop beasts in and out to attack. Also only one summoned beast can attack. I'd make that per page not panel.

Personally I have no problem with giving the summoned creatures super speed so they can all have a go.

In champions I once built a shapeshiftng suit as a follower and wore it around (it also had a power pool of nanotech that changed on the fly), horribly overpowered. Broke my GM for years, so I'm extra careful on what kind of shenanigans players try to pull.

My basic litmus tests are the following

Has it happened in a comic?
If the player is trying to recreate an effect in a comic then thats cool, it might not be in the power range of the campaign, so you can explain that its not the right scale.

Otherwise its probably the strange effect that over comes some players when they try and min/max their characters at the expense of the games enjoyment. Just tell them no and to come up with a concept before they start slapping power constructs together.

Will the same points in Special Attack do roughly the same damage? In the end if the same points could be used to do damage, does it really matter how the pc wins, just so long as it takes about the same points and the same length of time?

From Super Spped
You cannot rest or heal in a page in which you use Super Speed.

Healing
1-5 pts; Concentration
You may spend a panel in combat to heal damage by rolling your level in Healing as if it were a damage roll. Outside combat, you automatically heal 10 Hits/hour per level in Healing.

Anyway hope that didn't come across too preachy I've been wrangling some 1st class power games recently and that summoner idea must have touched a sore point