Daze question

MrJupiter · Post by **MrJupiter** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:51 pm

I'm constructing a villain with the daze power and trying to create a sleep-like effect. If I was to give the power the Extended Duration enhancement ("minutes" at just one level) that would mean that the heroes would only get to make a Mind check once per minute (rather than once per panel as usual). Correct?

Post by **BASHMAN** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:05 pm

That seems way over-powered to me. My interpretation is the effect does not automatically end after 3 pages, but can go on for minutes. However, the victim still gets a check every page.

If you want to put the Heroes to sleep to knock them out, do this as a Plot Twist instead.

Baelor · Post by **Baelor** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:23 pm

I have done this by offering Hero points or Dice as an award for the plot twist. For something like the entire team going to sleep, I would award a hero die to each of the heroes.

I had to explain it to the players the first time, that this was not the villains defeating the heroes in a final confrontation, but rather a setback on the road to victory. AND they got a hero die. Since then, they have been pretty OK with it.

As long as the COOLNESS follows the characters by making wherever they wake up cooler than where they were before, and they get to shine escaping form, defeating, or using wherever, whenever, or whatever the wake up, it all works.

MrJupiter · Post by **MrJupiter** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:12 am

I dig the whole Plot Twist/player bribe thing for game play; and I actually really like the idea of the bribe as smooth way to make a story work (and thanks for offering it Baelor). I’m just asking from the viewpoint of presenting the character to a larger audience than my game table. The Daze power is the villain’s big thing!

As written, Daze works great on Mind 1 characters (and the effects just might last a minute or two before an exploding die roll kicks in) but most Mind 2 or higher characters will be back to normal a page or two later (double that for bad rolls). [Just as an exercise, I made 10 different recovery rolls for a Mind 2 target and exactly half of them recovered the by the very next page. Higher Mind targets will surely do better.]

If Daze was set up as a tranquilizer dart, wouldn't these results seem a little underwhelming? [Hero is hit by dart, fails initial Mind vs. Mind contest and falls asleep for five seconds and wakes up just as villain is reaching for the hero's wallet. "Dang! I knew I should've used an elephant-level dosage."]

Would an enhancement that delays rolls to every other page be out of line? That would only double the overall duration. I'm not just talking for my games: I realize I could house-rule anything that the players are willing to accept. I'm just wondering what would seem reasonable and acceptable to the general BASH community.

Would such an enhancement be dangerous in the hands of a player? [Hero with Daze faces a lieutenant villain with Mind 2. Dang! His Daze power is only going to put the villain out of commission for one page: maybe two, if he’s lucky. Is that long enough to cross the room and tie the foe up before he becomes combat ready again? Or alternately, would it give him a decent chance to escape the villain?]

I don’t want to make something unbalanced. Your feedback would be appreciated.

Baelor · Post by **Baelor** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:33 am

In terms of a play session, if you make too much time elapse between saves, you run into the same problem that I see in D&D.

In an ongoing encounter, one character fails a save against certain abilities and that character is effectively removed from the combat [from being dead, held, paralyzed, slept] etc. That means that the player has nothing to do, which is boring. It is a lesser version of the save or die dilemma.

Most of the other powers in BASH offer a save each round, which at least gives the player something to do on their turn, and the hope for getting unstuck or whatever. A save every other round would not be too bad, but I think that going longer than that would be detrimental to play.

Of course, that is just my 2 cents.

Sunslinger · Post by **Sunslinger** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:15 pm

I would not mind a long duration as long as the target is not in danger. So sending the guard asleep while you rescue the princess (somewhere else) and leave I find ok.

Targets of a sleep power should be allowed to try to resist every round as soon as danger approaches though. You could rationalize that too. Dangerous situations are often loud and if not, everybody (also people withOUT Danger Sense) might have a bad feeling that makes them wake up if they are in danger. This way it seems balanced to me.

MrJupiter · Post by **MrJupiter** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:36 pm

Awesome points to consider - players would become quite restless to be out of play for long, and it would be quite difficult for anyone to sleep through the clamor of a typical hero/villain slugfest!

Thanks guys.

Baelor · Post by **Baelor** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:48 pm

I normally consider minions that have failed a power like Daze to be out of the encounter [at least], specifically so that encounters like the one Sunslinger posits CAN occur [cuz it makes sense and its fun]. My problem with keeping characters out of action for extended periods only pertains to the PCs, since the player then has nothing to do but go order pizza.

I think you raise a terrific point there Sunslinger. I really like the idea of things around the sleeper giving the a chance [or improving their chance] to wake up. Even such things as another character shaking the sleeper, etc.

MrJupiter · Post by **MrJupiter** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:25 pm

That's a great way to handle minions and, at the same time, makes players feel like super stars when they can be so effective ('cause you never know what those pesky minions might be up to when you're not looking!).