Mechs: Character or Vehicle?

[urbwar]

I've decided to submit Plague of Darkness (my Cosmic level one shot) for the next Recess game day in October. I ran it before, and it went well, but I realized after the game that I seriously under powered the heroes.

So, I'm revising them, and updating the scenario and it's villains to give them more punch.

After seeing Falling Skies, I thought about giving them some mechs. Keeping in line with their ships, they'll be organic in nature. The only thing I wonder about is whether to make them actual characters, or to make them ships. In Falling Skies, they are automated, but mine will likely have a pilot.

I can see the advantages/disadvantages of both, but thought I'd see what others thought before making a final decision (Recess isn't until October, so I have over a month to prepare)

[BASHMAN]

I'd probably make them vehicles. This way the pilot's Mind and the Mind of the mech are seperate. That way the psionic in the party can Mind Control one of the pilots and attack the other Mechs.

[urbwar]

I'd probably make them vehicles. This way the pilot's Mind and the Mind of the mech are seperate. That way the psionic in the party can Mind Control one of the pilots and attack the other Mechs.

Makes sense, though none of the pregens have Mind Control. Still, good idea if someone plays a character with Mind Control (and Cosmic level Mind Control would be kind of sick to see)

[MrJupiter]

I'd probably make them vehicles. This way the pilot's Mind and the Mind of the mech are seperate. That way the psionic in the party can Mind Control one of the pilots and attack the other Mechs.

I was originally building a mech this way but I was disappointed that the mere "pilot" was so much more powerful than his/her mech unit would have been. Sure the vehicle is only 5 pts less than the character and the mech would still be rather impressive piece of equipment. I just get hung up on the fact that the “mecha-pilot” is comparatively uber tough. I made my mech as the main build and just made an alter-ego to separate the pilot from the machine (but it ain’t a great fix either).

It's kind of like the glitch I ran into when building a super vehicle for a mystery-men scaled 20 pt character. The vehicle was 15pts - Just enough points to buy a Plain-Jane motocycle (as built in the vehicles section).

For those situations where the vehicle is worth as much, or more, as the player has to spend, I figure you could just give the vehicle between 2 to 5 character points to add special abilities to improve the ride (depending on how expensive the vehicle is to begin with).

[urbwar]

I tend to ignore the super vehicle advantage rules. Besides, the aliens who pilot these things are minions, so they don't really own the mechs they pilot, so point cost (imho) is irrelevant in such cases

[BASHMAN]

True- the cost of a vehicle only matters if it is owned by a PC Hero (or I suppose a Villain).

But I do see that issue w/ Mystery Men scale. You do know you can build a more expensive vehicle- you just have setbacks while driving the vehicle.

[Baelor]

You could try making the mech the 'hero' and taking the sidekick advantage to build the pilot. That way the mech has the higher budget.

Give the mech Non-sentience and/or Unliving to limit what it can do without the pilot, or come up with a disadvantage that exactly reflects the amount of action a mech can take without a pilot. I know it says Non-sentience is not available to heroes, but it is your game.

Another possibility is to keep control of the mechs in Narrator hands as far as the mechanics of the game are concerned. Just let the players build their character and you provide mechs appropriate to what you want for the game. That way you can budget and build the mechs you want to see [even taking player preference into the design], maybe even adjusting the point value of the mech to the character [basically adding Build Points to the mech for players whose characters come in under budget for the game.

[urbwar]

Bae,or,

The mechs are for the bad guys only, so they will always be under narrator control, Non-sentience would actually fit, as they will be organic (the bad guy ships are organic also)

[urbwar]

Another question: Since building it as a vehicle means it would have 100 hits, how can I make them have less hits (like a minion)? I didn't see any disadvantages in the book that allows that. I could always make one up, but figured I'd ask first

[kevperrine]

Another question: Since building it as a vehicle means it would have 100 hits, how can I make them have less hits (like a minion)? I didn't see any disadvantages in the book that allows that. I could always make one up, but figured I'd ask first

the DISAD: "Age" is the only official means I am aware of.

I have always thought there SHOULD BE a DISAD for having less hits. I wrote it up somewhere around the forums. I broke it down to reduce your HITS by 20 for every time you take it.

But then again, there are alot of little simple things like that I'd add, if I were king of the universe and creator of BASH! hahahah


Ooooo, ya know what'd be cool?
cut & pasted to a new thread - to not derail this one! HUZZAH!
http://bashtalk.org/modules.php?name=Fo ... opic&t=989

-kev-

[urbwar]

the DISAD: "Age" is the only official means I am aware of.

yeah, but it doesn't really work/fit for vehicles.

Guess I'll have to create one for this, since it will hopefully see release in the future, and i need a way of handling that in game.

[kevperrine]

the DISAD: "Age" is the only official means I am aware of.

yeah, but it doesn't really work/fit for vehicles.

By name, no. I agree.
By effect, yes. Sure they do.

Personally, (again, were I king of the universe) I'd change up the Vehicle and Sidekick/Pet rules a little (just a LITTLE). I see NO reason why any power or ADV/DISAD shouldn't or couldn't be used from normal character creation. Some wouldn't work, for obvious reasons - but the majority DO.

I'm a big fan of having core rules that transcend across all parts of the game situations and rulings. As long as there's internal continuity and comparability, there's no reason to separate Vehicle/Sidekick/Pet rules from other character creation (besides having the limitations for point values, as written).

-kev-

[urbwar]

By name, no. I agree.
By effect, yes. Sure they do.

Age only allows you to lower a person to 80 hits. It would require a rewrite to make it apply to the different levels of hits that apply to minions, so yeah, imho, it would be a different disadvantage.

[BASHMAN]

In my case, when a vehicle is driven by a minion, I give it the same number of hits. If the vehicle takes damage, and then Ensign Redshirt dies at the helm, Captain Character takes over. The vehicle now has a max of 100 Hits (just like the captain). However, it was already damageed. Simply apply this as a fraction.

So if the dead ensign had 20 Hits at full health, and the ship took 14 damage, that means that the ship still has 6/20 of its Hits. Which out of 100 Hits would be 30. (30/100 = 6/20).

[MrJupiter]

In my case, when a vehicle is driven by a minion, I give it the same number of hits. If the vehicle takes damage, and then Ensign Redshirt dies at the helm, Captain Character takes over. The vehicle now has a max of 100 Hits (just like the captain). However, it was already damageed. Simply apply this as a fraction.

So if the dead ensign had 20 Hits at full health, and the ship took 14 damage, that means that the ship still has 6/20 of its Hits. Which out of 100 Hits would be 30. (30/100 = 6/20).

I like this simple solution. Thanks.

[Is there any chance of this appearing in the 3rd printing of BASH rules -- just kidding!]