Telekinesis and wrestling

[drawers]

I just started DM'ing a BASH! game where a PC has Telekinesis 5 and it seems like he's abusing it but at the same time, he's playing by the rules as I understand them. He just uses it to grapple at range and crush the NPC in a 1v1 battle. The NPC is a well rounded character with the same point value as the PC but just doesn't have the brawn to break the Telekinetic grapple and his powers aren't effective due to the range of Telekinesis. Is Telekinesis really supposed to be used that way? It seems like an easy way to get Brawn 5 for 5 pts instead of 10 pts, and you get a 5 square range. I'm just wondering if I'm interpreting the rules wrong for TK, or is the only way to challenge the PC is to have a Brawn 5 or TK 5 NPC?

I've also read on the forums on several occasions where you can use a Hero die to automatically break free, but I've read the Hero Die section in the book and can't figure out how this applies. Which aspect of the Hero Die gets played in this situation? Anyway, he would probably just grapple with TK again on his next turn.

[Saker]

Hmmm. I don't have my books, but just to review:

1. Your TK character is using Mind to attack vs. defense of the other character, right?

2. In wrestling, you can either stop the grabbed character from attacking or moving with a grab attack, so the grabbed character can either attack the TK character or move up to him/away (out of range). In a second attempt, you follow up with the other for the effective pin.

3. In some discussions, you can use either Agility or Brawn to oppose a grab.

4. Some times, certain builds of characters are particularly effective against other character types. Equal points doesn't mean combat-balanced characters.

first four things off the top of my head.

cheers

[Jukeboxer]

The power is intended to move objects around, but I would rule that grappling goes well beyond the type of manipulation that he should be able to achieve with just the base power alone.

So he should be able to pick up an enemy and slam him into a dumpster. He should be able to drop him or otherwise throw objects at him. But actually grappling - simultaneously manipulating several moving parts (arms, legs) is much more complex.

Such a character could be built, probably using a relatively deep multi-power combo.

[Mercer]

Actually Telekinesis specifically mentions how to use it for wrestling purposes. As far as I see, your player isn't abusing it in any way (other than not being very creative). Build a few high brawn characters, mentalist tend to be pretty frail. Also giving a villain the wrestling martial arts style should help.

Ranged attackers help too, you reduce your level in Telekinesis for every 5 squares away your target is, if the villain is 20 squares out then Telekinesis loses a lot of it's effectiveness.

I wouldn't shy away from multiple villains. If someone is so strong that single villains aren't enough, then have a duo attack them. And finally, minions don't seem to be effective, and your players will tear through them, the major thing is they are great for softening your players up for the main villain. I actually went too far with this recently and a Total Party Knock-out occured after one player ended up having to face his Arch-Enemy alone (the others got knocked out).

[Jukeboxer]

Actually Telekinesis specifically mentions how to use it for wrestling purposes. As far as I see, your player isn't abusing it in any way

By the RAW, this is correct, I just meant highlight that the GM is always free to make rulings regarding how powers are used in his game. Telekinesis, Teleportation, Mind Reading, Clarvoyance and a few other powers are on my "yellow flag" list for abuse. Ultimately, concept and story-oriented players are the best solution for this genre, in my experience. Power-players are notoriously rough as superheros - buuuuuut..... that's a whole different discussion.

[BASHMAN]

THe page that explains the use for a Hero Die says "Snap out of It" as one use for it- to automatically break free of a status effect or automatically get back up with 20 Hits. The "Never Surrender" advantage gives you a free use of this ability 1/ issue.

TK is meant to be able to wrestle someone- but I will point out that in the new printing wrestling rules have been changed somewhat because of several balance issues people had with it.

How I would handle the situation. Let the PC squeeze the guy to unconsciousness. Once the bad guy is "defeated" and the PC is walking away, he gets blindsided by the villain who was only faking it (uses a Hero Die to get back to 20 Hits).

[Mercer]

Or alternatively pull skills into it. After a reasonable amount of damage do a private roll (Villain's Deception against Hero's Mind) and if it succeeds tell your player he's dropped! You may be able to save out on some hits (maybe he'll have 30 or 40 left). Just another suggestion, I like bringing the skills into the game more.

[drawers]

Thanks for all of the suggestions folks. I think for now, my easiest choice would be to avoid 1v1 battles or introduce a couple minions to throw the PC off his game. Maybe I can inspire the PC to be a little more creative with the TK.

[BASHMAN]

Also remember TK loses strength by 1 for every 5 squares of distance you have from the target. He may be close enough that he could grab some piece of debris and fling it to bean the guy. To stop him from doing this your TK wrestler would have to specifically be trying to restrain him from doing this- instead of doing damage by crushing him.

[drawers]

Also remember TK loses strength by 1 for every 5 squares of distance you have from the target. He may be close enough that he could grab some piece of debris and fling it to bean the guy. To stop him from doing this your TK wrestler would have to specifically be trying to restrain him from doing this- instead of doing damage by crushing him.

So if they had a weapon in their hand or there was a rock or something on the ground nearby, they could chuck it at the grabber and potentially break the hold? Unless the grabber is specifically restraining them from doing something like this? I hadn't really thought about this approach before, but this is something that could definitely work. Thanks

[kevperrine]

Also remember TK loses strength by 1 for every 5 squares of distance you have from the target. He may be close enough that he could grab some piece of debris and fling it to bean the guy. To stop him from doing this your TK wrestler would have to specifically be trying to restrain him from doing this- instead of doing damage by crushing him.

So if they had a weapon in their hand or there was a rock or something on the ground nearby, they could chuck it at the grabber and potentially break the hold? Unless the grabber is specifically restraining them from doing something like this? I hadn't really thought about this approach before, but this is something that could definitely work. Thanks

This is confusing to me.
Can I get an example?

[BASHMAN]

Okay, Kev. Let's say you have TK. I'm 20 feet away, standing next to a table with a bunch of ninja stars on it.

You use TK to grab me. Let's say your roll succeeds, but by less than 10; which means that your turn is over. On my turn, instead of trying to break free, I grab a ninja star and throw it at you. Thunk.

Next page, you use your TK to crush me. Rather than try to break free of the "invisible hand" than is crushing me, I grab another ninja star and throw it at you. Thunk. Man that damage is starting to add up.

Next page, you are tired of being hit by ninja stars. You decide to use your TK to restrain my arm so I cannot throw ninja stars at you any more. You cannot crush me, however, you're restraining my arm instead. So this page, instead of throwing a ninja star (you succeeded on the roll to restrain me) I just try to break free of the grip.

[kevperrine]

Okay, Kev. Let's say you have TK. I'm 20 feet away, standing next to a table with a bunch of ninja stars on it..

Always excellent and speedy help!
Thanks BASHMAN!

-kev-