Enhancements & Limitations - listed after the POWER???

kevperrine · Post by **kevperrine** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:37 am

I've asked this before.
Maybe I have a mental block. But I just DONOT understand the Powers write-up format in the BASH! UE core book.

Someone please please help me understand.
I'm a "completest" ... so I would LIKE to make sure I build my characters correctly and include all the important "mandatory" Enhancements and/or Limitations that are required by each power.

The powers that list "something" after them (the words that are Enhancements or Limitations or Ranges)... I want/need to understand.

Are they... Required to BUY or PAY FOR added onto the cost of the power?
OR
Are they... Already included in the power's cost? And if so, should they always be listed on the character sheet when taking that power? (to be complete)

I just don't fully understand HOW or why they're listed in the way they are. Some with commas, some with semi-colons, some have * aside their Limitation... Then in the text of some powers it notes that "x" limitation or enhancement is generally taken, etc.... etc...

This is only of the only areas of the BASH! game rules (and book) that is confusing/frustrating to me.
Not because I like to point out confusing text... but rather
BECAUSE my mind demands that I build characters fairly and accurately for costs and rules. So I feel like I'm not doing something right sometimes... because I don't understand how to interpret the text.

Anyone??
Thanks for explanations.
-kev-

Post by **BASHMAN** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:47 am

Any limitations or enhancements listed along with a power are "Free". They come with the power as part of its existing point cost. Essentially they are "part of" the power.

Yes- ON TOP OF THAT you can also take another limitation.

In the new printing (should be coming real soon) it is explicitly spelled out that yes, you can buy off any inherent limitation in a power with an enhancement.

As for the commas & semi-colons, I've answered this before that those were typos and they have been fixed in the new printing.

The Limitations with an asterisk mean that you have to read the power description to see exactly how that limitation applies. For example teleportation only has the Concentration limitation for the long distance teleportation.

kevperrine · Post by **kevperrine** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:56 pm

BASHMAN wrote:Any limitations or enhancements listed along with a power are "Free". They come with the power as part of its existing point cost. Essentially they are "part of" the power.

Excellent. That explains it to my dense head better.
Now... Part two...

What about the powers that list: "Range" &/or "Area"? Many powers have these listed. So do you get a "free" level of those? Where does that Range &/or Area "begin" at? Or is it there to note that you can BUY Range &/or Area if you want. Is anything with Range/Area ALSO built into the power cost already?

And then the power - Telekinesis has "Range 5 Squares". Why is that one completely unlike any others? And is that power's Range 5sq built in?

Lastly...
I see that some of the entire power categories have an Enhancement/Limitation attached to them... Though they are not listed by power. I assume that means EVERY power in that category inherently has this.
For the future, it would be more clear to just go ahead and list that WITH the power anyway. I've missed that on occasion, not thinking to look at the category at all...

Thanks again!
-kev-

dugfromthearth · Post by **dugfromthearth** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:18 am

range and area have a level which does nothing. It's a sneaky way of making them more expensive.

if you take a power that does not have range for free, to get 5 squares of range you have to buy range, then 5 squares of range.

if the power has range for free, then you just buy the 5 squares.

telekinesis is strangely unlike every other power - not only does it start with range, but it's strength gets reduced by range. It makes no sense to me, it's just the way it was built.

kevperrine · Post by **kevperrine** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:30 pm

dugfromthearth wrote:range and area have a level which does nothing. It's a sneaky way of making them more expensive.

if you take a power that does not have range for free, to get 5 squares of range you have to buy range, then 5 squares of range.

if the power has range for free, then you just buy the 5 squares.

telekinesis is strangely unlike every other power - not only does it start with range, but it's strength gets reduced by range. It makes no sense to me, it's just the way it was built.

Wow.
What you just said, makes no sense to me. Can that be explained or exampled better? I'm really confused now.

Serves me right for wanting to build cost/points correctly... hehehe...
thanks
-kev-

Post by **BASHMAN** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:06 pm

Go to the "Enhancements" section of the book. Read the Range Enhancement and he Area Enhancement.

kevperrine · Post by **kevperrine** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:06 pm

BASHMAN wrote:Go to the "Enhancements" section of the book. Read the Range Enhancement and he Area Enhancement.

You mean the "Reading Power Description" section?
SIDEBAR... Not to sound snarky, because I'm actually not. I'm hoping my questions can HELP clean up some of BASH!'s confusing bits. Because while I love love love the style of BASH! game rules. I love the detail of the rules. I love that they're both flexible and can also be very detailed in the making...
BUT... the layout in the Core UE book of sections is not so easy or clear.
For example - I still wonder... are:
Range, Area (and the multiple versions), and Maintained/Sustained all actually to be considered "Enhancements" or "Descriptors" or "Indicators". The text is very flip-floppy with "KEYWORDS". Keeping the keywords consistent and organizing the categories more directly would diminish confusions I think.

SIDEBAR - for categorizing... look at the Limitation: Gadget's "Every gadget also has some additional shortcoming. Choose from the following:" note... there's NO separation between what IS one of those choices and moving on to the next Limitations. So it's hard to know what the necessary Gadget options are and what follows that are not.

I always assumed they were "Descriptors" based on the layout of the text and the note that these are listed as "some other information" in the book. But I'm starting to think they are actually just more Enhancements. EITHER would make sense, but the ambiguity makes for a confusing reading of the rules. (to me)

Anyway...
So. If I'm deciphering it correctly - any power WITH the "Range" and/or "Area" descriptor(or is it Enhancement?) AUTOMATICALLY comes with:

RANGE = Touch for 0 cost, that can be bought up from there.
AREA = Burst 1x1 for 0 cost, that can be bought up or bought as Line/Arc or Ricochet (since they cannot be defaulted as Burst can to 0 cost)

So... does that mean that to BUY a power with a Range or Area, I must first buy the ABILITY just to HAVE Range and/or Area at that "default" "0 cost" rank (Touch for Range, Burst 1x1 for Area) for a 1pt Enhancement. Then buy up from there as costs indicate? Or if a power doesnot have Range/Area listed with it and I WANT to add them do I just jump immediately to the first costs on the charts?

Also... since they're listed under this "other information"...
Should I also assume that Maintained and Sustained are "FREE" (and required) if listed for a power. And must either be bought "OFF" a power with it listed or bought "ON" and added to a power they're not listed for? And that this cost is -1/+1 as an single Enhancement to buy or buy off?

Thanks again.
Again. I'm not being snarky in any way. Just looking for clarity on confusing written points. I blame my tutelage with Magic the Gathering, D&D3.5, and D&D4 for my weird *NEED* to have things categorized into nice box/sections and the adherence to keywords being consistent. It's not a bad thing necessarily... just annoying on either end - as writer or reader. LOL

HEY! Look at this as a GOOD sign... I'm finally really digging into figuring out the awesome intricacies of the system! heheh

thanks BASHMAN!!!
-kev-

Post by **BASHMAN** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:15 pm

I meant the enhancements and limitations section.

kevperrine · Post by **kevperrine** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm

BASHMAN wrote:I meant the enhancements and limitations section.

Okay.
My mistake.

Besides my confusion of where to read/look...
Anyone have thoughts on my conclusions? Is that correct?
My hope is to try to best decipher to play the game rules as intended.

Thanks!!
-kev-

MrJupiter · Post by **MrJupiter** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:15 pm

Here is how it works to powers and the "Range" enhancement:

If a power has "Range" listed beside the power's title then all you have to do is buy how much range you want the power to have.

If the power does not have "Range" beside the title (but you want this ability to be used on an adversary at a distance) you first have to buy the advantage "Range" and then buy how many levels of range you want.

The other variations pretty much work on the same principal (I believe - I'm not with my rules at the moment). I hope that helps.

Post by **BASHMAN** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:56 am

Exactly right- and the previous explanation given by Dug was also right. (Except it's an Enhancement & not an "Advantage")