Esoteric Training

BeardedDork · Post by **BeardedDork** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:30 pm

Esoteric Training, Intense Training Power
2 or 3 points
This power duplicates the most basic effects of another non-intense training power subject to Narrator discretion. It must be a power that could in theory be learned by anybody with sufficient training and discipline. For example your character may have been instructed by a an ancient mystic in a martial arts technique allowing him to temporarily paralyze his foes, duplicating the effects of Daze.
For two points you may duplicate the effects of the first level of a graduated power or a power otherwise costing only one point. For three points you may duplicate the effects of another power with a flat cost of two points.

Post by **BASHMAN** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:07 pm

Love it!

Maybe that could go in Awesome Powers?

Gobbo · Post by **Gobbo** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:15 pm

Very Nice. I like it!

BeardedDork · Post by **BeardedDork** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:16 pm

As far as I'm concerned, it could.

Kanji · Post by **Kanji** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:15 am

Did I inspire you?

BeardedDork · Post by **BeardedDork** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:47 am

Not so much inspired as motivated, I've been thinking about something like this for a while. One of my first pregens I made for my BASHthulu con game broke the normal rule in a truly insignificant way. It always bothered me that my aging professor who was an omni-reader technically didn't qualify as normal.

kevperrine · Post by **kevperrine** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:16 am

While I really (also) dig the versatility of this new power idea!! It brings up a question I've always sort of had.

The base question is: What actually constitutes the "rule" on what it IS to be a "normal"? Meaning... what powers/attribute scores/advantages are you aloud to have (or not aloud to have) to still BE categorized as a "normal"?

I ask about this in two parts.

#1. I always assumed that I could BUILD a character with a power like DAZE and then describe it in a mundane way - and still in essence BE a "normal". Is that NOT true? If not - what powers/attribute scores/advantages am I aloud or not aloud to build my character with. Or add through experience points later. And still BE a "normal"?

#2. I always assumed that I could use a Hero Die to do a power stunt and GET a power like DAZE if I could describe it in such a way that it makes sense that my "normal" character might be able to stunt it. Is that NOT true?

As in the past with my use of BASH! rules, I may be assuming things based on other supers RPG options that are NOT "legal" in the BASH! system.
If so... I'd like to be aware.
-kev-

BillionSix · Post by **BillionSix** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:29 am

How about instead of being a separate power, it's a 1 pt. enhancement that can be applied to other powers.
So, you can add 1 pt. to Daze or whatever the Narrator approves, to make it an Esoteric Training power.

This would allow you do use Daze (nerve pinch) or Mind Control (Svengali mesmerism) or lots of different forms of Boost, and still be a "Normal" human.

The main in-game advantage of this, of course, is that Esoteric powers would not be subject to such things as Nullify.

Post by **BASHMAN** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:51 am

That works too.

Kevin, by RAW you are "Normal" under any of the following conditions:

1. You are not super all the time, but transform back into an ordinary person at least some of the time (see Thor & Captain Marvel).

2. You do not have any inherint powers. Instead they all come from gadgetry or a power suit (see Iron Man). This would allow you to take virtually any power- it just has to be explained as a device of some kind.

3. You are an ordinary person with exceptional training. All of your powers come from the Intense Training category.

4. Some combo of 1-3 (Batman would be a combo of 2 and 3 for instance).

So by RAW, you could have Daze and be "normal" but it would either be part of a gadget OR you transform temporarily into some "super mode" that can do it.

By having Esoteric Training as an Intense Training power, it essentially opens up more possibilities to "skilled normal" types. I think it would work fine as an Enhancement to a power from another category though- allowing it to function as an Intense Training power. Probably best to have it say Narrator must approve of it" with emphasis. As a Narrator, I'd be okay with somebody taking Daze or Suggestion as an Esoteric power, but I wouldn't be okay with them taking Stretching or Flight that way.

BillionSix · Post by **BillionSix** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:13 am

BASHMAN wrote: As a Narrator, I'd be okay with somebody taking Daze or Suggestion as an Esoteric power, but I wouldn't be okay with them taking Stretching or Flight that way.

Obviously, you have never been trained in the "Flapping Your Arms Really Hard" technique!

Brian

kevperrine · Post by **kevperrine** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:46 pm

BASHMAN wrote: Kevin, by RAW you are "Normal" under any of the following conditions:
...
So by RAW, you could have Daze and be "normal" but it would either be part of a gadget OR you transform temporarily into some "super mode" that can do it.

Great, that helps my thinking. But here's two examples (same power, similar/different situation/use) of what I'm specifically asking about.

THE BATMAN vs. THUGS wrote: ...after descending from the rafters of the warehouse, taking down 2 of 3 iron-pipe wielding thugs - the Batman looms atop a crate, his silhouette shadowing the last thug - a yellowed moon behind him...

THUG: "yaa, you...you don't know what yer in for Bat! The Joker will...
THE BATMAN: "QUIET! It took less than 3 seconds for me to put down your pals. That's less than 2 beats of your heart. You blink and I'm on you before your eyes open!"
PLAYER: I'd like to spend a Hero Die to gain the power "Daze" to be able to wrap the thug up, "freezing" him in fear so the next thing he sees is the Batman interrogating him!
NARRATOR: Okay, I gotcha! Sure, that seems like something the Batman could do with a standard Thug. (following a Mind check) "the thug blinks and opens his eyes again, now upside-down hanging over the edge of the warehouse roof. The Batman barks from the shadow..."
THE BATMAN: "Now, PUNK!... the Joker - WHERE IS HE!!"

OR

CAPTAIN AMERICA vs. THANOS wrote: ...Infinity Gauntlet on outstretched fist - Thanos mows through the heroes like he's a hot knife and they're all sticks of butter. Cyclops is suffocated, Iron Man has his head torn off, Thor is turned to glass – it is not pretty. Finally, only Captain America remains, and in an impressive act of defiance, stands up to Thanos one on one....

CAPTAIN AMERICA: "As long as ONE MAN stands against you, Thanos, you'll NEVER be able to claim victory"
PLAYER: I'd like to use a Hero Die to get the DAZE power and stun Thanos for the round! Making him pause to focus all his attention on Cap for the moment. And I'll probably want to spend Hero Points on that Mind check!
THANOS: "Noble sentiments from one who is about to DIE."
NARRATOR: Okay, NEAT! Sure, that seems like something only Cap could pull off on a *god*! (following a Mind check)... "*Dazed*... Thanos gets ready to smite Cap, and the real plan springs into action. The Silver Surfer swoops in at light speed to snatch the gauntlet away from Thanos. The whole attack was just a diversion so that Surfer could steal the gauntlet!" But it is a noble sacrifice! Thanos, enraged comes out of the Daze effect and swats Captain America with his godlike strength (rolls dice/dmg) - oh no... Cap's neck snaps, his body falling to the ground!

BASHMAN wrote: By having Esoteric Training as an Intense Training power, it essentially opens up more possibilities to "skilled normal" types. I think it would work fine as an Enhancement to a power from another category though- allowing it to function as an Intense Training power. Probably best to have it say Narrator must approve of it" with emphasis. As a Narrator, I'd be okay with somebody taking Daze or Suggestion as an Esoteric power, but I wouldn't be okay with them taking Stretching or Flight that way.

I really like this Esoteric Training as an Enhancement rather than a power. It makes sense, not being able to "Nullify" it.

That said - it also helps "fit" my examples above. But those wouldn't normally BE things that Cap or Batman would be built with (well maybe Batman could) so... if you would "rule" that my above examples are NOT "normal" uses of Hero Die for a "normal" character... then HOW could Cap or Bats be able to get/use Daze or other powers in that way?

neat discussion!
I am totally incorporating that as an Enhancement in my "Errata" for BASH! games I Narrate!
-kev-

Post by **BASHMAN** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:25 pm

The Batman scenario would be handled w/ roleplaying and using Frightening presence.

The Captain America situation is either pure role-play or a Team-Up Action with Silver Surfer.

Personally I wouldn't let them use Daze for that. Daze is something different- you being mentally controlled (not manipulated, not tricked, but controlled) to stand there and do nothing. This could be from a blinding flash of light, or some sort of mind control thing, but in the end, what the power is about is you having no ability to physically move.

When Batman says "blink and I'll END you" I would have the player roll an intimidate check, using Frightening presence. I would take into account that he'd just wasted 2 other guys. As Narrator, I call this a difficulty of 10, and Batman easily beats it.

When Cap's player says he wants to distract Thanos so that Silver Surfer can steal the gauntlet, I would say: "Sure this can be either a team-up action with the Surfer, OR you can make a contest with Thanos to distract him, giving him a Hindrance in his ability to defend himself from the Surfer's theft of the gauntlet."