Basic Action Super Heroes!

Hey all:

I'm a noob here, trying out BASH for the first time with my friends. I'm giving it a whirl instead of Mutants and Masterminds, which is too crunchy for my group -- so I'm really trying hard to get things right!

I'm having trouble with the power Push. Can someone explain it to me like I'm a five-year old? I simply cannot figure it out -- and I'm just getting more confused reading other forum threads on the subject.

Can someone please break it down with an example from buying it?

Please include how to buy it (are range/area included?) and how it works in combat.

Thank you so much!

Ok, let me see if I can help.

Steps to purchasing Push:
1) You can purchase Push for 1-5 pts. Each pt either goes towards a bonus to hit (1 for 1), or a bonus to dmg (2 dmg per 1 pt) (which is actually knock-back, no damage unless they get knocked into something).

2) You can then spend points on range and/or area.

Creating a character with Push:
We have Generic Hero with B-1 A-2 M-3

He purchases Push 3 (3pts) with Mid Range (2pts). Total cost is 5pts.

He wants to use 1pt of his power's level as a bonus to hit, so +x1 to hit. The remaining 2pts go towards "damage", and since it's 2 for 1, that's a +x4 to "damage".

So, your To Hit multiplier is Agility (x2) + Power (x1), so x3.

Your "damage" multiplier for a ranged attack is Mind (x3) + Power (x4), so x7!

To figure range (p40), you use the power's level (3) x 5 (for Mid Range), so you can target anyone up to 15 squares away.

So Generic Hero targets G.Villain and rolls 2d6x3 vs the villain's defense. Let's assume he hits...

G. Hero then rolls 2d6x7 for his "damage". Instead of rolling soak to absorb the damage, the villain takes their Brawn x10 as a fixed "soak".

So Damage-Soak=# of feet knocked back!

Hope that helped a bit. If my answer's still confusing, feel free to ask again.

Sure.

Let's take the example of somebody using Brawn to push with pure physical strength. Like the thunderclap of two gigantic hands smashing together.

Our hero has Brawn 4. He takes Push 1 (+1DM), with a Small Burst area effect.

Now, Push doesn't do damage directly. It only does knock-back. For that purpose, you double the amount it would have done if it had been an attack. So our hero with Brawn 4 and Push 1, [(4+1)2 = 10] does x10 Knock-back the way I run it. Some Narrators interpret it to be only the +DMs in the power are doubled- and that is also a fine interpretation. In which case it would do [4+(1)2= 6] x6 Knock-Back.

Let's use the x10 example. Our hero rolls 11. That means he does 11x10 = 110 feet of knock-back to everyone inside that small burst. One victim has a Brawn of 3, the rest have 1s, and one of them has Resistance to Knock-Back The guy with a Brawn of 3 is knocked back 30 feet less than 110, everyone else is knocked back 10 feet less than 110: 80 and 100 feet respectively. The guy with a Brawn of 1 who is Resistant to Knock-Back is only knocked 50 feet (any Knock-Back he takes is halved). In this example he does not need to roll to hit, because his Push has an Area effect and hits automatically.

Next, figure out "Did they slam into anything" when they went flying backward? If the answer is no, they just go rolling around, skidding along the ground, but don't take any damage. If the do slam into something, they take damage as if they fell that distance. So if you get knocked back 80 feet and slam into something, you take x8 damage- as if you fell 80 feet. If it's enough damage to destroy the thing you slammed into, you keep on flying.

Another way to do this is to treat howeve rmany feet of knock-back they had left before they impacted an object is how far they are treated as falling. So if somebody is knocked back 80 feet, and slams into an object 50 feet along the line, he takes only x3 Falling damage.

Hey Captain Howdy,

Let me give this a whirl.

Before trying to understand the Push power, you should probably familiarize yourself with the knockback rules on page 19. Essentially, they state that each point of damage rolled on an attack knocks the recipient of said damage back one foot. This is reduced by the targets Brawn x10.

So - if the Golden Age superhero Freedom Star punches Adolf Hitler in the face for 30 points of damage, and Hitler has a Brawn 1, Hitler just got knocked back 20 feet.

Now - how does Push work? Push is specifically designed to do knockback. Each rank in the power grants a x2 damage multiplier, but only for purposes of determining knockback. Push does no damage - it only sends people flying.

Back to our example: Freedom Star has a speedster friend named Marathon. Marathon has Push 3, defined as a whirlwind that she creates by spinning her arm around really fast. The power costs 3 points. Marathon's player didn't purchase any range for the attack, but he did spend 2 points on an Area (Medium Line) effect for the whirlwind (see page 40). This means that when Marathon creates a whirlwind, everything in a 2x8 square line is affected by the attack (Marathon, of course, chooses the direction she affects).

Marathon has a Mind of 2. As is the case with Special Attack, Marathon gets to use her Mind as a modifier for her "damage" with Push. Push 3 + Mind 2 = x5 effect, right? Almost. As stated in the power description, Push does "damage" equal to double the ranks in the power. The Mind modifier is ALSO doubled. Marathon, therefore, has a Push 5 that does x10 effect.

Two rows of 8 * burst into the room after Freedom Star punches Hitler in the face. Marathon zips right in front of the first two *, and creates a whirlwind. All the * are caught in the effect, so they all suffer the x10 effect. Marathon rolls a 7 on the dice, for a total of 70 Hits. The * don't take the 70 points, but they take the knockback. Brawn 1 is what they have, so they absorb 10 knockback. That means all 8 of them fly back 60 feet! Too bad that windo pane was all that stood between them and a 3 story fall! Ah well! They were * anyway.

Does this work? Any questions?

Best,

Dragonfly


P.S. Welcome to BASH! I'm a longtime HERO and M&M player, but BASH: Ultimate Edition won me over almost instantly. I haven't looked back since.

Doh! Two of you beat me to it!

Best,

Dragonfly

The more the merrier!

All:

Thank you so much for your quick responses! The three thorough examples cleared so much up for me!

I am working hard to make this my new go-to supers game!

I am bringing this back up because I have gone through many different character builds, from official and third party perspectives, and there are several different interpretations.

Push's DM can be based off Mind or Brawn, depending on whether it originates as a hand-to-hand or as a ranged attack.

E.g (as BASHMAN put in his example) a 'thunderclap', being two hands smashed together in order to send a ranged attack can be considered a h-t-h Push, based off Brawn.

It is like a Special Attack - therefore the 'Push Damage' modifier is added to Brawn or Mind.

The debate, and most constested issue here, is whether to double the "Push Damage" before or after it is added to Mind/Brawn.

BASHMAN favours that it should be added and then doubled, although he has stated it is valid for the narrator to interpret that it can be doubled before bein added to the relevant Stat.

Eg Push 3 + Mind 3 = 6, x2 = 12

or

Push 3 x2 =6, Mind 3 = 9

Are both considered valid according to the author.

I personally believe it should be double after it is added, as BASHMAN does.

My reasoning is to maximise the amount of actual push based on the following:

When figuring out the Range on Push, use half the Knock-Back Multiplier of the Power instead of the damage

However, going with this way you are much more likely to go over a x10 multiplier with Push.

As Push can get quite complicated, considering it is versatile and yet it's only damage is by being pushed into somehing hard (and needing to be worked out after one has determined how far x amount of y has been 'pushed'), then I would propose that a cap of 10 is placed on the multiplier (as anything over that is not on the chart and even relatively simple mathematics can become a headache iif one is working out several things at once).

The x10 cap would also help distinguish between those who are Cosmic level and those who are not. - else see Cosmic Level Push/Knock-Back.

Thoughts?

I think a x10 cap is appropriate, since that is also Terminal Velocity in falling damage, and Knock-Back damage is modeled on falling damage.