Summoning Questions

[DevastatingWeakness]

Hi,

I have a player wanting to play a summoner, but I'm a bit uncertain how the Summoning power is intended to work. I think it's meant to work like so:

On turn 1, our Summoner concentrates (becasue it's a Concentration power) and drops to last priority on the page. He then summons his choice of a set of 1, 2, 3 or 6 creatures.

On subsequent turns he can either attack as himself, or he can cause his summoned creatures to attack.

My questions are:

Do you only have to Concentrate on a turn when you Summon critters, or do you have to also concentrate during a turn when you use your critters to attack?

On turn 2, can he concentrate and use Summon again to get an additional set of creatures? Or is he only allowed to have the original set (at least until that set of creatures is destroyed)?

If he can summon more than one set of summoned creatures, when he chooses to have the summoned creatures act in a turn (instead acting as himself), does each set of creatures get to attack?

Only the summoner or the summoned critters can attack in a turn. But can both the Summoner and the critters do non-combat actions (like moving, activating non-combat powers, etc.), or is it strictly only one acts or the other?

As an example:
Turn 1: Summoner concentrates, and summons a set of three critters.
Turn 2: Summoner has the critters make an attack. He cannot make an attack himself this turn, because the critters attacked.
Turn 3: Summon makes an attack. he cannot have his critters make an attack this turn.
Turn 4: Summoner concentrates, and summons a second set of three critters.
Turn 5: Summoner has set 1 and set 2 each make an attack.

Is that the way the rules are intended to work?

[Sijo]

Hey Krypton, nice to see you again!

Now I cannot give you the official answer, but from what I can interpret from the book: the maximum number of creatures summoned is six. This is because the more minions, the less Hits they have and the minimum number they can have is 10. So the summoner cannot summon any more until they are destroyed or he sends them back. (What if a few are destroyed, can he replace them? Well, I would allow it, but it would require another full turn of Concentration.)

As for actions, the description does mention they can move but not act simultaneously (unless they have super speed). If this were limited only to attack actions I think it would be mentioned. The whole thing sounds as if the Summoner were a puppeteer who must focus on his minions for them to act.

Still, Summoning is a great power: make sure to keep some critters between you and your foes and send the rest to attack.

[MrJupiter]

...Still, Summoning is a great power: make sure to keep some critters between you and your foes and send the rest to attack.

Yes, great advice, Sijo.

[DevastatingWeakness]

So, given the above advice, I guess Summoning works like this:

Page 1: Summoner decides to Summon six minions. He Concentrates (so he drops to last priority on the page, can only do a half move, and can't make any attack actions). A set of six minions appears next to him. Summoner rolls for the priority for the minions.

Page 2: On Summoner's priority, he can act normally (usually a move, activate non-attack powers, then an attack). The minions can act normally on their priority too. BUT only the Summoner OR the minions can make an attacks on this page. Effectively, the Summoner can attack, or he can command the minions to attack; he can't do both. (The minions might make one attack per minion, or one group attack if they are used as a gang. Healing/Restore/etc. counts as an attack, so Summoner can't use Heal on the same turn that the minions attack. )
During the Page, two of the minions get killed, so there are only four minions left.

Page 3: Summoner decides to use Summon again to replace the lost minions. He Concentrates (so he drops to last priority on the page, can only do a half move, and can't make any attack actions), and then the two missing minions are replaced by freshly summoned minions, which appear next to the Summoner. (The Summon can't use Summon to have more than a total of six minions at the same time.)

Does that sound about right?

[Sijo]

Actually upon re-reading the Power description, I see nothing that forbids the summoner from acting on the same page as its minions. Its *the minions* who can only act one at a time. unless they have Super Speed. They all can move, just not do anything else.

Note: the Mob option for minions would not apply here, as it requires dozens of minions.

[DevastatingWeakness]

So when you use Summon, you always get a group of minions that are treated as a Gang? Only one attack per Panel (with +5 Result Bonus per minion over 1)?

[Sijo]

That is an optional rule, but if used, I think so. Remember however that it also allows the Hero to hit more than one minion at a time.

[MrJupiter]

Actually upon re-reading the Power description, I see nothing that forbids the summoner from acting on the same page as its minions. Its *the minions* who can only act one at a time. unless they have Super Speed. They all can move, just not do anything else.

Note: the Mob option for minions would not apply here, as it requires dozens of minions.

I believe that you are right on this point. In the second paragraph, after describing the number of Hits your summoned creatures will have based upon quantity, it goes on to say. "All creatures summoned in this way have identical stats and powers. All can move, but only one can act each page (though if they have Super Speed, they would be able to divide more than one panel between the group this way)." Nothing in this block of text draws the summoner into to the pool of creatures discussed.

This is good, especially for the super crook who summoned them, since he can join them in the fight against the heroes.

[BASHMAN]

You only concentrate to summon them; you can direct the creatures on your Panel without having to delay till the end of the Page.

[DevastatingWeakness]

So, an updated example:

Page 1:
Summoner decides to Summon six minions. He Concentrates (so he drops to last priority on the page, can only do a half move, and can't make any attack actions). A set of six minions appears next to him. Summoner rolls for the priority for the minions.

Page 2:
On Summoner's usual priority, he can act normally (usually a move, activate non-attack powers, then an attack). (He doesn't have to concentrate to direct his minions, only to summon them.)

On the minions' priority, the minions can act normally too (usually a move, activate non-attack powers, then an attack)... BUT only ONE of the minions can make an attack.

During page 2, two of the minions get killed, so there are only four minions left.

Page 3:
Summoner decides to use Summon again to replace the lost minions. He Concentrates (so he drops to last priority on the page, can only do a half move, and can't make any attack actions), and then the two missing minions are replaced by freshly summoned minions, which appear next to the Summoner. (The Summoner can't use Summon to have more than a total of six minions at the same time.)

During page 3, the four previously summoned minions can act normally on their priority.


NOTE: Optionally, you apply the Gang rules to the summoned minions.

[Sijo]

I believe so. In addition, the Extra Command enhancement (+2 pts) from Awesome Powers vol. 10 allows Summoning (also Animation and Duplication) to provide one extra action for one of your minions. It can be bought up to two times, thus allowing up to three actions for the group.

[DevastatingWeakness]

I'm starting to put together a little project to collect my notes and examples on some of the more complicated powers.

Here's my first entry on the Summon power:

http://bash-exegesis.wikidot.com/summoning

(This site is definitely not intended to replace or rival the original BASH:UE book. Like the BASHcreator.net site, it's meant to clarify and enhance the rules, but does not include the core rules themselves.)

[Sijo]

I think you nailed it! And the new site is very helpful!

[DevastatingWeakness]

Thanks Sijo.

I have a feeling the '60 Hits worth of summoned creatures limit' is a bit clumsy. It's logically extrapolated from the original rules to fill a gap... but it feels fiddlier than the usual level of book-keeping required by BASH.

I was thinking of replacing that with 'All your currently-summoned creatures must be of the same type and have the same number of Hits, up to the usual limit (so six with 10 Hits, three with 20 Hits, two with 30 hits, or one with 60 Hits.)'

So instead of counting Hits, if you lose a couple of Earth Elementals, and you want to bring in Fire Elementals instead, you must dismiss all the Earth Elementals and summon a bunch of Fire Elementals instead. You can't have a mixed set with different types and/or Hits.

If you lost two 10 Hits Earth Elementals, you can summon again, and it'll bring it back up to six Elementals.

It's a bit less flexible that the '60 Hits' rule, but it feels closer to the philosophy of BASH. Thoughts?

[Sijo]

Well, personally my approach is "if the rules describe something, follow them; anything not explicitly covered, you're free to invent." Your mileage may vary, of course.

Note there are also several optional rules both in UE and in the Awesome Powers books... maybe a compendium of those would be useful.