Basic Action Super Heroes!

I am very confused about Ghost Form at Rank 2. Ranks 1 and 3 are well spelled out, for what abilities they grant. Rank 2 does not say what/which things/parts from Ranks 1 and/or 3 can you do with Rank 2.

Here's what I broke down to try and figure out...

GHOST FORM 3
Insubstantial - Impervious to physical attacks; full effect from energy and mental attacks; cannot manipulate physical objects; cannot manipulate physical objects or make physical attacks; can phase through physical objects.

GHOST FORM 2
Partially Insubstantial - Not be able to pass through air-tight barriers.

GHOST FORM 1
Semi-Solid - Half damage from physical attacks; full effect from energy and mental attacks; can manipulate physical objects and make physical attacks (dice results, damage or skills are halved); cannot phase through physical objects but can squeeze through tight spaces (1sq. entire page).


ALSO... Clarification question.
Ghost Form 1 notes:
"squeezing through tight spaces [like under a door] is a slow process- taking an entire page to move 1 square".

Should that be PANEL instead of PAGE?

thanks!
-kev-

I always thought of Ghost Form like this:

Rank 1:
Similar to the powers od Raziel from the game Soul Reaver. You can get past fences but through solid doors or squeeze yourself under a door.
*physical damage and attacks halved etc etc

Rank 2:
Can squeeze through tighht spots. Can't get past solid barriets. Similar to Dracula's mist form.
*physical damage and attacks halved etc etc

Rank 3:
Martian Manhunter
*no physical damage and attacks

Almost right. Rank 2 is No physical damage. The difference between 2 and 3 is that 2 cannot go through airtight/watertight containment, and 3 can.

I also allow level 2's to go through or into permeable objects like the ground if it makes sense, and rise again, even if they do not have flight or similar.

BASHMAN wrote:Almost right. Rank 2 is No physical damage. The difference between 2 and 3 is that 2 cannot go through airtight/watertight containment, and 3 can.

So. Is this break-down correct?

GHOST FORM 2
Partially Insubstantial - Impervious to physical attacks; full effect from energy and mental attacks; can manipulate physical objects and make physical attacks (dice results, damage or skills are halved); cannot phase through physical objects but can squeeze through tight spaces (1sq. entire page).

No.

Here it is:

GHOST FORM 2
Partially Insubstantial - Impervious to physical attacks; full effect from energy and mental attacks; cannot manipulate physical objects or make physical attacks; cannot phase through solid objects but can phase through non-airtight objects, like a screen door, prison bars, net, etc.

Do I read this to mean that insubstantial characters can make energy or mental attacks?

I understand that the ghost form character can be harmed through mental and energy attacks.

I imagine Ghost Form 2 as gaseous. Gas/mist needs cracks to pass through, completely insubstantial things (ghost form 3) do not.

I got that they can take damage from energy and mental, I just wonder if that means they can also deal damage with energy or mental.

texaspoet wrote:I got that they can take damage from energy and mental, I just wonder if that means they can also deal damage with energy or mental.

If they don't, you could always create an enhancement that allows a character to do so. I have a villain with Ghost Form 3 who can attack solid forms while in their Ghost Form, so I just made an enhancement for them.

texaspoet wrote:I got that they can take damage from energy and mental, I just wonder if that means they can also deal damage with energy or mental.

If it's in the character concept and built with your stats.... Why couldn't or shouldn't they?

What makes you think they don't?
Or that they're different from any other character able to take/make that kind of attack?

-kev-

texaspoet wrote:I got that they can take damage from energy and mental, I just wonder if that means they can also deal damage with energy or mental.

Yes you can. If I remember correctly, I think BASHMAN himself posted an insubstancial character (a ghost) with Telekinesis 5 with the limitation as being touch only. I believe it was somewhere in the posts for games run on the BASH site. A really neat idea too! You'd have to go looking for it though as I can't remember which thread it was.

kevperrine wrote: What makes you think they don't?
Or that they're different from any other character able to take/make that kind of attack?

-kev-

It is implied without being specified.

The power says "While you are impervious to physical attacks, you also cannot manipulate the physical world either." Reasoning makes me think that this means that you can affect the physical world with energy attacks and mental attacks just by the implication that YOU can be harmed by them, but it DOES NOT specify that this is the case; it just seems to make sense.

I was wondering if there was an official reckoning.

Texaspoet

texaspoet wrote:

kevperrine wrote: What makes you think they don't?
Or that they're different from any other character able to take/make that kind of attack?

-kev-

It is implied without being specified.

The power says "While you are impervious to physical attacks, you also cannot manipulate the physical world either." Reasoning makes me think that this means that you can affect the physical world with energy attacks and mental attacks just by the implication that YOU can be harmed by them, but it DOES NOT specify that this is the case; it just seems to make sense.

I was wondering if there was an official reckoning.

Texaspoet

I found it. Here is BASHMAN’s Unknown Soldier character (I just copied his Flickr link – I hope you don’t mind BASHMAN). The character has ghost-form and telekinesis (and a weakness to silver). Maybe this could serve as a somewhat official ruling since BASHMAN himself used Mental plus Ghost Form (and Telekinesis could be used as a mental attack with TK punches the equivalent, in this case, to a Brawn 5 Bruiser)!

Very cool. Kind of what I had in mind. Thinking of a character named Hive Spider, who is basically a spider hive mind, made up of thousands and thousands of spiders. Most physical attacks wouldn't really hurt the hive (might squash a few, but they just add more spiders to their collective to make up for it, so physical really doesn't have much effect) but they'd still be vulnerable to energy definitely, maybe some resistance to psychic powers (there is a rudimentary mind). They would have some effects that would have to be modeled on powers that affect the real world, like poisons or debuff style powers. Hence wondering about using ghost form to model it. Thanks!