Very Basic Question

[BentonGrey]

Howdy guys, I've just picked up the B.A.S.H. system and am beginning to create a campaign. I'm not terribly experienced as a GM, and while I am really loving the simplicity of this system, I find that I'm a little confused as to how I should balance encounters. When creating villains and minions should I shoot for the same point total as the PCs? Should I try to adjust up or down for challenge levels? Can anyone give me some advice or point me towards a resource for balancing campaigns? I've got the B.A.S.H. Ultimate Edition book, but none of the other texts.

[kevperrine]

...I find that I'm a little confused as to how I should balance encounters. When creating villains and minions should I shoot for the same point total as the PCs? Should I try to adjust up or down for challenge levels? Can anyone give me some advice or point me towards a resource for balancing campaigns? I've got the B.A.S.H. Ultimate Edition book, but none of the other texts.

As yet, there aren't really any "other texts" that you need to go get that would be helpful. BASH! is somewhat lite on supplements, sadly.

My advice, may not be as super helpful but nonetheless is my best offering... Honestly:

- Experience: try different things, test things, play 3-4 games before fine-tuning any stats or numbers for your NPCs. Come with concepts for the villains and challenges, maybe just use the core book's listed archetypes for roughs. Then play. Why? Because (in my experience with BASH, more than many other systems): BASH! has a HUUUUUGE "swing" factor, meaning - the multiplication aspect of the die-rolling can jump panel to panel or roll to roll from the single digit results to triple digits!!

- Test Mooks (aka. the "D-List"): one thing to try for your experience learning above is to try different versions of Mooks at different times. Different levels of powers and different numbers in their groups. Then don't let on to the players that you're just testing... I think of the super easy "encounters" that you can plan for in D&D4 or other games as "milk runs", so build some villains that you feel are adequate or even a bit less... then PLAY. If the PCs defeat these villains VERY easily - AWESOME, these villains just became your campaign's version of the classic "C & D Tier" villains that are common in any great hero's "rogue's gallery" such as Spiderman's: Mysterio or the Enforcers, etc... The "most fun" thing here is that the players will likely get some BIG & potentially EASY/QUICK "wins", which boosts their confidence and in most cases gives the players the MOST memorable fun, for when your villains ARE a stronger (or more applicable) challenge.

- Let them roll, then decide: meaning... that you think of the challenge (whether it be an environment event, a villain, or anything else with die rolling) then let the players use their powers/skills against it FIRST (before you roll to attack, etc...). Then either have a number in mind, or actually make up (if you want them to win/lose) the number you "give" them after the fact based on their roll. Make this a big group of things (such as a Zombie horde) and let them get a few actions each before YOU act as the challenge/villain. That will give you some ideas as to the "averages" of their end totals on die rolling. (as noted above, you'll need several rolls to get an average for the high/low for the swing of the multiplying variance!). Note those averages down... then use that number to make YOUR stats and challenge levels for future games.

- * Challenge Ratings: my opinion for Narrating (or GMing) any game is to create a world in which the PCs are never set against "appropriate" odds (ie. Challenge Rates). To me... that seems false, like a scrolling video game. While I DO think of "fair" challenge rates, I don't adhere to them. I determine in the story if this is an encounter in the story in which the PCs should: win easily, have 50/50 chance, or have less chance to defeat. Then whatever happens in-game happens, whether the PCs lose to "easy" encounters (due to tactics or bad die rolling) or beat a villain that I thought would wipe the floor with them. Point. I just don't worry about "fair" in challenge ratings. BUT I do pay attention to not be a "killer GM" and always have the challenge/villain be superior to the PCs. It's hugely fun to have the inept D-list villain (Paste-Pot-Pete?!! FF fans?) in supers gaming and comics.


does that help at all?
-kev-

[BASHMAN]

It's actually fine to have villains whose point totals are far above the Heroes'; particularly if the Heroes outnumber the villain, as is often the case. Mooks just help even the odds a bit; as does a villain giving a Monologue.

My Heroes were between 25 and 30 points in my campaign and they often fought 40 point villains. Indeed, some of those fights were rather short, while a 25 point villain nearly took them all out... twice.

Some of this has to do with character design (some 25 point characters are more deadly than 40 point characters). Some of it is tactics / situation.

[jakspade]

I try to balance attacks and defenses so that they are somewhat balanced, or to at least determine how long the fight will be. Heroes and villains that are too evenly matched help to breed innovation, improvisation and fun. You might have to run a few mock combats in order to figure out your baseline.

[Baelor]

When I first started with BASH, I limited myself to what were technically glorified Minions. I found that the players, being new to the game, were not as effective as they would otherwise have been. Villains with 100 hits would have bogged down the game, so I worked out regular villains, but gave them 40 to 60 hits, depending on the situation. It helped keep the game going smoothly and allowed for the occasional one shot knock out, which is always popular.

The other thing that helped me was to stick with simple villains to run, and keep the numbers down. That way I could study up on my villains, and on the PCs, and not worry too much that i did not know the whole book backwards and forwards.

Until you get comfortable, resist the temptation to use villains with powers that inflict penalties to PCs stat rolls. If you have to use them, make them work in an area or similar, so characters are only affected while they are in the area.That way you don't have to sweat over characters rolling to get out/ negate/ or get over the penalty.

The nice thing about BASH is that GM rules master comes quickly. The system is consistent and makes sense, and is easy to rule on the fly if you don't want to look up a rule. the +2/-2 dice bonus/ penalty is a great tool for the GM. If you can't figure out what to do with a situation that a player throws at you, these are your friend.

Best of luck! have a blast! Pow! Boff! [sorry, a little carried away there]

[BentonGrey]

Thanks guys! Y'all's answers made me a bit nervous about building my encounters at first, but I've been playing around with the system, and I think I'm getting the hang of it. Thanks for the pointers!

[BentonGrey]

Howdy guys, I've got another, likely obvious, question. It's entirely possible I'm being dense, but I can't seem to figure out how much regular weapons cost and how that's determined. Can anyone help me out? Is this dealt with somewhere in the book that I'm just not seeing?

[BASHMAN]

Howdy guys, I've got another, likely obvious, question. It's entirely possible I'm being dense, but I can't seem to figure out how much regular weapons cost and how that's determined. Can anyone help me out? Is this dealt with somewhere in the book that I'm just not seeing?

Money is not tracked like most RPGs where each gold piece or dollar is accounted for. In a world where there are Tony Starks and Bruce Wayne types running around, it makes little sense to keep track of money. There are essentially 3 categories of wealth:

1. Destitute (you can barely afford the essentials, don't have even a TV, live in a bad part of town in a studio apartment, etc).

2. Middle Class. This is the default wealth of most characters. They have the average standard of living, maybe a little more or less. You can afford most normal equipment that an ordinary person can buy.

3. Super Rich (You have the Resources advantage, and are a multi-millionaire, possibly billionaire).

So you don't need money to "purchase" weapons. You can have any ordinary equipment that makes sense for the character, that the Narrator approves of. So yo u can have an ordinary car, etc. You don't need to "pay points" for these things. That was one of the things that turned me off other supers systems and led to the creation of BASH! in fact.

There are some equipment items that are listed as "restricted". These things are only available to characters with Police Powers, Resources, or some other reason to have it. Criminals of course, could have these items as well if they can get their hands on them.

[BentonGrey]

Thanks Chris, that makes sense now.

[BentonGrey]

Alright, I've got a slightly more complex question now. I've got a player who is building a really interesting character, but we've got some questions about summoning. First, buying an advantage for the power allows you to summon an extra type of creature, right? So, you need to have two sets of creature builds in that case, and you can summon only those two types of things. I think I've got that, but here's my question.

The power description says that you can summon one 60 hit creature, two 30 hit creatures, or so on. Can you summon different hit level types of those two categories of creatures, or must you decide ahead of time that you'll be summoning two 30 hit killer marmosets or what have you?

On a related question, what are the limits for summoning? Can you summon a new creature every turn? What are the limits there? My player has taken super speed, so he could, as I read it, conceivably summon three different creatures in a round, as he's got three panels per page in which to act.

How long do summonings last? Do they last for the entire scene?

I'm sorry for the effusion of questions, but we're really enjoying this system, and while it is marvelously simple, we've managed to find ourselves complicating it beyond our abilities to unravel!

[BASHMAN]

Actually a 1 point enhancement lets you summon 3 types of creatures, not only 2.

It says you can only summon creatures of the same type at a time. So by RAW, it means you must dismiss (I'd call that a free action) your summoned Creature A before you can summon your Creature B.

However, I'd let the "Second Nature" enhancement remove that restriction.

Likewise, with Super Speed, you cannot summon three times per page, as Summoning has "Concentration" built into the power. You'd need "Second Nature" to remove that restriction as well.

Now, if he took it with Second Nature, then sure, he could summon 3 times a page. However, he cannot have more than those 3 out at a time. He'd have to dismiss one to summon another. At least that's how I do it as a Narrator.

In my long-running campaign, one of the PCs is a wizard/comic geek whose power is to grab a comic book out of a bag, and bring the character on the cover to life. He however only ever does 1 at a time.

[BillionSix]

In my long-running campaign, one of the PCs is a wizard/comic geek whose power is to grab a comic book out of a bag, and bring the character on the cover to life. He however only ever does 1 at a time.

Odd thought. What if someone made a comic based on the real-life adventures of a superhero that existed in your world. Could he "bring the character to life" allowing the character to fight alongside his real world counterpart?

[BentonGrey]

Thanks again Chris, that was really helpful! It's more than a little awesome that the guy who created the system is answering questions about it. Thanks a lot man, that is really, really neat.

Well, we had our first session this last weekend, and it was a big hit! I hope that y'all will forgive me for taking a moment to say what we thought about our first experience with B.A.S.H. Everybody really liked the system, and we found the gameplay very smooth and engaging. I threw my players' characters into the midst of a standoff between the police and a band of what seemed to be simple crooks. Anyway, they ended up facing a supervillain tank, who gave them plenty of trouble, and a bunch of mooks with machineguns. They found the minions (just mobsters straight from the book) a bit too easy, so I'm going to throw some beefier henchmen at them next session. Other than that, though, I think the guys really took to B.A.S.H., and I know I did. The basic combat is really nice and simple, so much easier than other systems we've tried. When we added in the rules for knockback and the like, the game gained a nice bit of depth and strategy. We were all learning what we were doing, and the guys had a really hard time hurting my villain, Brimstone. Looking back over the book, I realized that it's for moments like this that hero dice exist. Well, thanks to Chris and the B.A.S.H. team for creating such a great system. You've found a group of guys who will be fans from now on.

Well, that first session did work out really well, but I'm still struggling a bit with one of my players' characters. My buddy Hank built a summoner, the same character I had asked about earlier. Thanks to y'all's help we were able to figure out how to put this together, but I wonder if he might be a bit overpowered. We're playing a street level game, so we've got a 25 point limit on characters. He had a really awesome concept, but it didn't easily fit into the rules, so I had to homebrew a bit of stuff. Essentially, the concept is that the character's soul is bonded to a demon, and when he gets low on health this creature can emerge. He transforms from a ranged summoner to a melee beast when he reaches 25 hits, but he also goes berserk and attacks the nearest character, regardless of affiliation. I let him have this as a 2 point weakness, given its potential to go horribly wrong and injure his allies. He also bought a damage weakness, double damage from mental attacks, for another 2 points.

His powers are built around summoning and healing, but he bought super speed and second nature for each of those to enable him to do a lot in combat. He's got:
Brawn 1
Agility 2
Mind 3

Healing 4 (Second Nature) 5 pts.
Summoning 5 (Rng 1, Second Nature, 3 types) 8 pts.
Super Speed 5

He had three types of creatures set up to summon, earth, fire, and air spirits. The earth guy, as you'd expect is big and strong, fire is quick and does lots of damage, and air is invisible and quick.

The player would use his character this way: On his super speed rounds he summon one critter right next to someone, using its opening action to attack. He'd then summon twice more, getting two more attacks, or once more and heal once as well. This effectively gave him three attacks per round. I was letting the creatures act when summoned because with the Second Nature enhancement he was able to do multiple actions, and it seemed to make sense. In practice, though, I'm wondering if summoned creatures should have to wait until the end of the page to act, even those summoned with this specially enhanced power. On the other hand, another PC with Super Speed used that power combined with an attack with the Swift Strike enhancement to take four attacks per round, so I don't know that it is really that much different.

What do y'all think?

[AngryGhost]

hmm, I wouldn't probably allow swift strike to stack with super speed, although I don't think there's anything saying you can't I tend to leave Intensive Training Powers (swift strike isn't an enhancement) in the hands of non-super heroes for the most part, but not allow stacking between these and super powers anyway.

Summoning allows one creature to "act" but all to move, so only one would be able to attack when summoned.

I don't see why the summoners second nature would allow his minions to all attack the same round. If they all have a second nature in something then perhaps the one that is allowed to attack might get to do something else.

if the minions themselves have some sort of superspeed then it looks like they might be able to do more from the rules as is.

I would also rule that he can summon up to 6 minions in total. He can bring 1-6 out in a round but no more. If he summons a 60 hit monster out in first part of his super speed round he isn't going to be able to summon another one. He's put his mojo into that 1 wee beastie. He doesn't however even need super speed to conjur 3 minions with 20 hit points a piece or 6 with 10 hp.

At least that's how I understand it - but I've stayed away from summoners so I might be wrong.

EDIT: although re-reading what you've said I might allow you do use super speed to summon 3 monsters out each with 20 hit points that are allowed to attack if you're using all your super speed actions this way. - so yeah I guess you're right in that they'd get three attacks in your go, but they would be relatively weak say compared to someone just with super speed 5 and super strength for example.

I would draw the line at giving all your beasties superspeed (or eqivalent) as I would think that's being a little twinky, at least for this level of game - but they could take some sort of Intense Training Power - remembering the dice modifier for both attacks. - this would probably be better if you summon one or two more potent creatures.

[BASHMAN]

Question: does he have the Second Nature enhancement on Healing and on Super Speed and on Summoning (3 separate enhancements worth 3 points altogether)?