Basic Action Super Heroes!

I am trying to model a character who can change into a Monster.
If I take Alter-Ego combined with Involuntary Change is there any need to take Shape shift? Or can I just stat up two different builds to reflect both of his forms?

I believe you have it right. Shap shift would only be used if the monster could turn into multiple forms.

I know the Werewolf build in the fantasy archetypes uses shape shift ( to human form only), but I don't think it has Alter-Ego. That is what made me ask in the first place.

I am picturing this as a were-creature type transformation. Two distinct forms, with no mental cross-talk between the forms. (i.e Hulk, Jeckyll & Hyde, most werewolves)

No you have it right. That werewolf writeup is assuming an NPC I think, not a player character.

Would teh two forms be built on the same amount of points?

Or possibly that could determine whether Alter-Ego is an advantage or disadvantage. I could see the argument that if built on the same points it would be an advantage, due to having a skilled normal and a monster form.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle point cost for the human form?

Does the Human form have the Normal disad? Use that as a guide. Also, they would share points. So you'd pay for the highest of all stats and powers.

yes, he would have normal disadvantage.

So you are saying a 30 point build would have 30 pts to distribute between both forms total?

Or do you mean that if Monster had 3 Brawn and human form had 2, that only the highest would have to be paid for?

the latter is how I would interpret it.

So if one Alter Ego of the character was a 20pt hero (B2, A2, M2; with Normal disadvantage) with 10pts in physical powers:

Heightened Agility, Brawn Boost 2 (from a Proton Energy Pill), Special Attack 4 (a ray gun), and Martial Arts Mastery 3. [Note: Let’s just ignore the fact that the Brawn Boost and Special Attacks could be made cheaper with Device limits.]

The other Alter Ego was a 40pt disembodied Brain hero (B0, A1, M5; with the Freak disadvantage, obviously) built with 28pts in mental powers:

Hovering, Flight 5, Teleportation 5, Force Field 4, Mind Blast 5, Telekinesis 3, Danger Sense, and Telepath 3. [Obviously a mental powerhouse and overkill for a game but just as an example to make sure I fully understand.]

The hero would pay for:
STATS: Brawn 2 + Agility 2 + Mind 5 for 18pts.
POWERS: Heightened Agility, Brawn Boost 2, Special Attack 4, and Martial Arts Mastery 3, Hovering, Flight 5, Teleportation 5, Force Field 4, Mind Blast 5, Telekinesis 3, Danger Sense, and Telepath 3 for 38pts.

GRAND TOTAL: 56pts for the character.

Obviously this is an exaggerated extreme. A player would scale his/her selection of powers between the two Alter Egos so that the total would clock in to 40 pts (for a world class game) and 25pts (for a street level one). If the “disembodied brain hero” was the only form for the hero, then the 40pt character build would be quite reasonable for a world class game. The fact that the character can also become a very different Ego with access to a different set of powers makes him/her a more useful character (depending on how easily the character can make the transformation).

An Alter Ego that is radically different from the “normal” hero would make for an expensive build. It is probably best for one of the Alter Egos to be a very minimal character and to have some overlap in powers (if both forms have super powers) just to keep the overall build at a reasonable point cost. [A complete Normal, without any powers, would be best.]

We've been playing it that you only pay for the more expensive form. If you compare alter ego to Super Vehicle and/or Sidekick then that seems reasonable. Perhaps a house rule that the ego form is built on 3/4 points like the side kick would be the go ?

WaylanderPK wrote:We've been playing it that you only pay for the more expensive form. If you compare alter ego to Super Vehicle and/or Sidekick then that seems reasonable. Perhaps a house rule that the ego form is built on 3/4 points like the side kick would be the go ?

Hey WaylanderPK, that too is pretty much where my assumed interpretation has been. After all a player with a 40pt hero could have a 30pt Sidekick with a completely separate set of complimentary powers at his/her bidding; without the inconvenience of having to change their Ego state.

I initially considered the Sidekick model myself, but I don't think it accurately models how Alter-Ego is portrayed in the comics. Bruce Banner, Donald Blake, Billy Batson, and Dr Jeckyll all are ordinary humans with one or two remarkable skills at best.

I think I understand BASHMAN's explanation, but am considering another alternative as well.

Basically letting Alter-Ego work as a modified version of Shapeshift. Like so:

As Shapeshift (Limit:Normal human form only. Extra Effect: Modify Mind)

i.e Lets you rearrange your points for Brawn, Agility and Mind as you like. You can reduce the pool of stats by 1 point to instead receive 2pts of powers in this new form.

i.e:
Super Form
B 4 A3 M 0 (7 pts)

Human Form
B 1 A 1 M 4 (6 points) +2 points for powers (Most likely spent on skillful)

The point was to have a maximum, character concept should dictate the alter ego. The final cost will probably be a good indicator if the alter ego is advantageous or not.

If you have an Alter Ego in the way that there is the normal guy able to change into a Super you have no problem in my eyes. This is, if all stats of the super-form are higher than those of the normal. Then you just pay the (higher) point cost of the super and take the normal disadvantage. Just define the stats and powers of the Ego with the lower points as you see fit (and the Normal Disadvantage permits).

It is more difficult if the Different forms have different powers and stats. I would try to represent that through Situational Limitations for powers (...only in Battle form or something like that) and the Multipower Enhancement. For stats you could use Shapechange or you could use a house rule (we play it) having Super Stats as a Power. They are added to the stats of a character and work just as the higher stat level. The only difference is that as a power limitations and enhancements can be added. So you can work with Multipower and Situational again.