New to Bash! with a challenge ...

[Chryckan]

I just picked up Bash UE! and from what I can see it looks like a very easy game to play.
Most important of all it looks like you can really customize any imaginable hero and power.
To me that's the corner stone for any supers rpg and from my experience there are only two other rule systems on the market that allows you to do that (Hero System and Wild Talents) but I'm very hopeful Bash will join that exclusive group.

But after just a quick browse through I'm far from expert enough to answer that myself so I thought I'd do what I usually do with a new supers game. I make a post with a few tricky powers I know most games can't handle and see if some kind folks here can prove for me that BASH can.

The first power involves recursion along with damage absorption.
It's meant to simulate a power armor which when attacked it absorbs all the damage that failed to penetrate and use it to become tougher and more resistant against new damage. At the same time the power armor also becomes physical stronger, able to lift heavier weights and it also becomes denser and heavier.
Of course, these effects are temporary and should dissipate after a fixed period of time such as after each fight.

So you have a power that breaks down to something like this;
Armor with a fixed baseline of protection that's always there.
Ability to absorb and transform damage into temporary increased protection, strength and density.

Of course, the new increases in abilities should all scale according to each other and naturally this should function as one single power where everything described happens together in one moment.

From what I've read this should actually be doable in BASH esp. if boost can be used on powers and not just stats.

Second power is way way easier.
It's basically a force grid instead of a force field. Instead of a indestructible wall you have an indestructible chicken wire fence that allows small things like bullets or fire pass through while larger things like humans or footballs gets stopped.

The third power isn't so much a power as a non-humanoid being.
Or two variants of the same non-humanoid being.
Basically, a character that is an gelatinous blob which can extend pseudo pods for manipulation. Think amoeba.
The variant is basically the same thing except for it being made out of pure energy.
(This last challenge was what both Hero system and Wild Talents struggled the most with doing and it nearly stumped WT)

So you think Bash! UE is up to the challenge?

[BASHMAN]

The first power is Armor and also Boost (Brawn) that functions after damage has been soaked. You could even make it so the amount of Brawn gained increases each time you get hit, or that it fades between pages of being hit.

It's basically a force grid instead of a force field. Instead of a indestructible wall you have an indestructible chicken wire fence that allows small things like bullets or fire pass through while larger things like humans or footballs gets stopped.

This is actually something that is going to be addressed in Awesome Powers. There is a Limitation you can take for Force Field that changes it into a Force Cage. But using rules as written, just use a Situational Limitaiton that the force field has holes in it, and therefore cannot stop bullets, etc. This just counts as a 1 point limitation on the Force Field.

The Third thing sounds like Ghost Form 1. If this is the creature's natural state, take the Second Nature enhancement. If the creature cannot change to a normal humanoid form, take the "Always On" Limitation, and probably the "Freak" Disadvantage.

The variant (pure energy) sounds like Ghost Form 3 and probably Damage Aura.

[Chryckan]

Thanks for the quick answer.

Let me reply in reverse order.

A permanently maintained ghost form is actually the easiest way I've seen a supers rpg solve the non-humanoid problem.

Awesome powers sounds intriguing (and painful for my wallet).

Though I'm not sure you understood what I was after when I asked about the first power. It wasn't so much what power to use to make an armor but if Bash! would allow you to create recursive powers, that is powers that goes back and effect themselves, and their wielder with multiple new effects.

Basically what I was after is if you can make a single power that works like this.
You have a power with permanent baseline effect, in this case X Levels of protection. When the power is triggered by the right circumstance (and not activated by the owner), in my example by taking damage, the following three things happens.
The level of protection become X+1
At the same time the power owner's basic strength Y becomes Y+1 and his/hers basic density/weight Z become Z+1
The next time the trigger occurs in the same fight the effect happens again and the level of protection now becomes X+2 instead, with the same happening to to the other powers such as strength becoming Y+2 and density Z+2
And so on and on.

(The numbers I used are just for illustrating my point and doesn't have anything to do with the game mechanics of bash or any other game. )

All I'm really interested in if Bash UE is adaptable enough to allow for recursive branching powers.

[MrJupiter]

Thanks for the quick answer.

Let me reply in reverse order.

A permanently maintained ghost form is actually the easiest way I've seen a supers rpg solve the non-humanoid problem.

Awesome powers sounds intriguing (and painful for my wallet).

Though I'm not sure you understood what I was after when I asked about the first power. It wasn't so much what power to use to make an armor but if Bash! would allow you to create recursive powers, that is powers that goes back and effect themselves, and their wielder with multiple new effects.

Basically what I was after is if you can make a single power that works like this.
You have a power with permanent baseline effect, in this case X Levels of protection. When the power is triggered by the right circumstance (and not activated by the owner), in my example by taking damage, the following three things happens.
The level of protection become X+1
At the same time the power owner's basic strength Y becomes Y+1 and his/hers basic density/weight Z become Z+1
The next time the trigger occurs in the same fight the effect happens again and the level of protection now becomes X+2 instead, with the same happening to to the other powers such as strength becoming Y+2 and density Z+2
And so on and on.

(The numbers I used are just for illustrating my point and doesn't have anything to do with the game mechanics of bash or any other game. )

All I'm really interested in if Bash UE is adaptable enough to allow for recursive branching powers.

BASH is a cool and flexible set of rules for super hero creation, but Chris built in some constraints to ensure that a certain level of balance is maintained – it ain’t perfect but it’s pretty reasonable. One of those constraints is that you can only LINK two powers into one single power. Your “recursive power” challenge asks to group three separate powers into one – which breaks that rule. It can be done very easily but has to be broken into two separate steps (read: powers).

Here’s how I would build it:

Armor 3 [Gradual Limitation: it builds one level per hit taken; Situational Limitation: Only lasts for the scene] LINKED with Brawn Boost 3 [Doesn’t apply to Soak rolls; Gradual Limitation: it builds one level per hit taken; Situational Limitation: Only lasts for the scene]. 4pts

Density Increase 3 [Gradual Limitation: Levels scale with the Armor 3 power.] 3pts

In this way, each hit will increase the Armor and Strength of your character and he/she will automatically become heavier as they increase (just make sure that your character hasn’t been lured overtop of mere wooden floorboards before they begin to wail on you!) BTW, that Result bonus from Density Increase is going to make for an uber-strong character when it combines with the Brawn Bonus! I’d probably save points by ditching the density increase power. There is nothing in the rules to say that your character couldn’t have his weight jump an extra 100 pounds or so with each level of the Armor power that activates. No extra costs and no extra penalties: it’s just flavour! Those saved points would be handy as extra Hero Points each session…

[Chryckan]

Even if you break it up you still get the effect of a linked recursive power which was the thing I was curious about.
But I'm not going to use this for a character. It's just one of the nastier powers I have been able to come up with when it come to rule mechanics.
And a big Kudos to BASH to let you create this power because not all games out there can do it.

With my challenge questions answered I think I'm gonna sneak in a proper rules question before I finish.

Can you still Hover if you only take the Flight movement power? And if so why is hover its own power? Why isn't it a subset or limitation to flight?

(Btw hover so reminds me of CoH's hover power that was completely useless for most parts. XD )

[MrJupiter]

While you can "hover" with the Flight power, Hovering has a couple of advantages. First, its speed scales with the user's Agility, so an Agility 3 character can move at 12 SQ /panel for this 1 point power while Flight, at level 1, limits the user to just 5 SQ /panel.

Additionally, Hovering is a Sustained power so it doesn't need the user's concentration to keep it on - and stays on even the character is hit; something that Flight cannot do!

With Flight, however, you can "hover" over the water.

[BASHMAN]

Awesome powers sounds intriguing (and painful for my wallet).

I don't think it will be (painful). The first installment is over 50 pages and will cost $5.99.

Though I'm not sure you understood what I was after when I asked about the first power. It wasn't so much what power to use to make an armor but if Bash! would allow you to create recursive powers, that is powers that goes back and effect themselves, and their wielder with multiple new effects.

Armor as a power does not mean you wear a suit of armor necessarily. It can be used to simply represent extra-ordinary toughness. Likewise, it could be used to represent an ultra-fast healing factor (wounds close as soon as you take them), a skin-tight force field, etc.

Mr. Jupiter's explanation of how he'd build the "gets hit, becomes stronger, tougher, and denser" character is a pitch-perfect explanation of how I'd build it myself.

Can you still Hover if you only take the Flight movement power? And if so why is hover its own power? Why isn't it a subset or limitation to flight?

Again, Mr. Jupiter beat me to it here. So there is a speed advantage to taking Hover instead of Flight for the point cost. You can choose to use Flight to hover (you can even use Telekinesis to do this, albeit very slowly), but the hover power is much more bang for your 1 point buck.

Also while Flight is not Sustained, if you want your character to have it, you just add the "Second Nature" Enhancement to his Flight and he can now continue to fly without problem even if he gets hit for huge damage. Note that even if you don't have the power Sustained, and you take a big hit and start to fall from the sky, it does take time to hit the ground; so a character who is 20 stories in the air who takes a big hit, will be able to right themselves on their next panel while they are 17 stories in the air.

[MrJupiter]

…Mr. Jupiter's explanation of how he'd build the "gets hit, becomes stronger, tougher, and denser" character is a pitch-perfect explanation of how I'd build it myself…

Thanks, BASHMAN. [I think I’m blushing!]