Rules Question: Push

[Dragonfly]

Hey guys:

I'm off for the summer and am back to tinkering with my favorite game. I have a few questions regarding the rules.

Push:
Does the push effect get modified for stats? In otherwords, if I have a Mind 2 character with Push 3 (ranged) - what's the "damage"? Is it:

x6 (just double the ranks in push)?
x8 (double the ranks in push + 2 multiplier for the Mind)?
x10 (double the ranks in push + double the Mind)?

I've been going with option two (x8), but I want to make certain.

Best,

Dragonfly

[BASHMAN]

You can interpret it as you like. I usually use option 3, but option 2 seems good as well. Option 1, however seems underpowered to me.

[Dragonfly]

You can interpret it as you like. I usually use option 3, but option 2 seems good as well. Option 1, however seems underpowered to me.

Perfect! Thanks again. I'm good with option 3. I just didn't know what was RAW. Question, though - do you use option 3 even if it takes you above x10?

Say a character with Push 5 and Mind 2? Do you rule that as a x14 effect, or do you cap it at x10 - no matter what?

Best,

Dragonfly

[BASHMAN]

You can see Cosmic rules for multipliers above x10 if you want to.

[kevperrine]

Here's my take at interpreting the RAW....
important rule notes from RAW

PUSH
Essentially, it functions exactly like the Special Attack power with a few exceptions.
Push does double the Damage Multiplier that an equivalent Special Attack would but instead of damage that reduces a target’s Hits, Push only does knock-back.

SPECIAL ATTACK
Each point in this power’s level is either used as a bonus to the multiplier to hit or damage.
Hand to hand and thrown weapon attacks use Brawn as a base Damage Multiplier. Ranged and area attacks add Mind to damage multiplier.

Normal KNOCKBACK = (Dmg rolled x 1 ft.) - (Brawn x10 ft.)

So..... the ranks your put into the Push power are figured exactly like a Special Attack power's build breakdown.
Therefore... (please, correct me if I'm wrong) the formula for the Push power is:
PUSH = (Dmg rolled x 2 ft.) - (Brawn x10 ft.)


For Example:
A character with
BRAWN 3, AGILITY 2, (melee based) PUSH 3
could be...

x2 Atk; x12 PUSH (aka. Dmg roll x2) [which is normally x6, doubled for Push]
x3 Atk; x10 PUSH
x4 Atk; x8 PUSH
x5 Atk; x6 PUSH

Is that correct by the BASH! RAW?



The only part of the power I'm not sure I understand is this:

"If purchased without range, the user can choose to use a Brawn contest instead of Agility to affect the target (armor won’t help the target)."

Does that mean that a player can choose to make their character use BRAWN to Attack instead of the normal Special Attack to hit attack roll that uses AGILITY?

x8 (double the ranks in push + 2 multiplier for the Mind)?
x10 (double the ranks in push + double the Mind)?

I've been going with option two (x8), but I want to make certain.

Personally, as I read/interpret the RAW ... Option 2 is the more "correct" interpretation.

For a Special Attack translated to the x2 DM, (if I'm correct) you do NOT double the STAT score for figuring the DM. You would only double the PUSH power rank. Otherwise it seems it would get silly... even for comic books.

My reasoning.
As shown above (if I'm correct) at character creation (unless you have Enhancement: Variable) you always CHOOSE what the value of your "attack to hit" multiplier is by adding your choice of ranks of the PUSH power ranks you have to your normal "to hit" (normally Agility for melee or Mind for Range).
Then choose the "Damage Multiplier" rank by adding your choices of ranks of the PUSH power ranks your have to your normal DM (normally Brawn for Melee or Mind for Ranged attacks)


Is that correct?
-kev-

[kevperrine]

You can see Cosmic rules for multipliers above x10 if you want to.

Really?
That confuses me a little then.

I was of the understanding that there are no "hard caps" on powers and such for ANY "Campaign Scale" in BASH!. Except the basics of all the Stats and Powers NOT being able to cross the threshold to Cosmic, unless your Narrator agrees (meaning - Stats and many Powers cap at 5).
However.... If the combo of a Power + it's necessary Stat goes above into the x6 or above (such as Armor 3 + Brawn 5 = x8 Soak) .... If/when that happens, I was understanding that's perfectly fine.

I thought the PUSH power would only cross into "Cosmic Scale" when you build it as an attack that has:
"the Annihilation enhancement, or attacks made with Cosmic Might, do Cosmic Knock-Back, which is measured in Grids." (--p.94 "Cosmic Knockback")


So...
For Example:
even a super specialized "Street Level" character with...

BRAWN 5 + PUSH 5 could have a max:
x20 PUSH ft.
(DMx2) Knockback total and still NOT be "Cosmic".
[at build cost of only: 15pts, for that crazy combo]
For a crazy awesome average of
2D6(7) x20 = 140 ft. (28 sq)!!
MINUS the defender's Brawn x10 ft.


Is that out of sync with the RAW for normal scale vs. cosmic scale?


Just trying to get a handle on interpreting the spirit of the rules better.
-kev-