Basic Action Super Heroes!

OK The next two sections for discussion are Hero Points and Experience. I've combined the notion of Earned Hero Points and Experience to eliminate conversion rules between them. I've also copied here the Experience sections from both the player's and narrator's sections for completeness for our discussion. The last section alludes to acclaim, which we will discuss next. I hope you enjoy.

cheers

Hero points
Hero points recharge every issue for use by the character and can be calculated as the character’s point total subtracted from 30. For example, if a character is built with 27 character points, she would have three (3) hero points, and a 20 point character would have ten (10) hero points. This makes a big difference considering you can convert five (5) hero points into a hero die per the rules in BUE.

Experience
Players earn experience points two ways.
First, narrators reward players for exceptional role-play. The narrator section provides examples and can award a maximum of three (3) experience points to each player per issue.

Second, each issue awards between two (2) to five (5) experience points based on story accomplishments.

Experience can be spent in two ways. First, a player can convert 30 experience points into a permanent character point. This additional character point does affect your hero point total reducing it by one.

When a character has exhausted all of their hero points during an issue, experience points can also be spent to convert one-for-one into hero points.

In Narrator’s section
Awarding experience points
Narrators can award experience points for exceptional role-playing. Remember that these experience points convert into character points and potentially into increased acclaim, so the awarded behavior should be memorable. This reward mechanism provides a direct incentive to players to act heroic and to play in character.

Examples to award experience points:
• Hero performs an amazing sacrifice
• Hero acts exceptionally heroic
• Hero rescues innocents from harm
• Hero delivers an excellent one-liner

Just some I'm clear, you can convert XP into HP, but not the other way around, right?

Dustland wrote:Just some I'm clear, you can convert XP into HP, but not the other way around, right?

Right.
HP are determined by character point total recharging each issue.
XP are earned.

I like the set Hero Points, works for me and gives players something to think about when building their heroes.

Questions:
1) Unspent Hero Points go away each issue, correct? Thought I'd ask the elementary questions to get them out of the way.

2) Will the games get progressively higher in "power level"? It looks like CPs will not be gained easily, but let's assume someone starts with a 27pt character and is an awesome roleplayer and their character is uber-heroic...

After x number of games, the hero is now a 31+ pt character. What happens? Will characters begin to get penalized for continuing to grow beyond the 30pt ceiling? Will the ceiling rise as the games progress?

I know these are questions that probably don't need to be addressed immediately, but they will come up if the Living Campaign is as wildly successful as it should be!

Questions:
1) Unspent Hero Points go away each issue, correct? Thought I'd ask the elementary questions to get them out of the way.

Yes.

2) Will the games get progressively higher in "power level"? It looks like CPs will not be gained easily, but let's assume someone starts with a 27pt character and is an awesome roleplayer and their character is uber-heroic... After x number of games, the hero is now a 31+ pt character. What happens? Will characters begin to get penalized for continuing to grow beyond the 30pt ceiling? Will the ceiling rise as the games progress?

Three thoughts:
1. Next year's 12 issues (assuming we get there) will use 35 points to calculate HP
2. Depending on the XP awards that we give for each each issue, that ceiling boost might come earlier, to keep pace with 3 XP per issue from role-playing.
3. Some issues that face really tough combats early in the year would get HP bonuses specified in the issue.

Should I limit the starting HP to the range of 20 to 25? To delay hitting the ceiling longer.

Forcing everyone to begin each issue with a Hero Die isn't such a terrible idea (with the potential to have two). I think Bashman's mentioned before that he handles his games that way.

OK. I'm going to reduce the total character point start range from 20 - 27 to 20 - 25.

There's been lots of good discussion on Hero Point house rules. I've not included that in order to use "official" BASH rules to the maximum. Maybe if BASHMAN decides to make a change and he's between publishing updates, the living campaign can introduce it early and play-test.

If there's no more discussion here, I'll post of the next batch of game mechanics for FAME tonight or so.

cheers

Dustland wrote:Forcing everyone to begin each issue with a Hero Die isn't such a terrible idea (with the potential to have two). I think Bashman's mentioned before that he handles his games that way.

I think it's explicitly stated that you get 1 Hero Die... no matter what if you are a Hero (a PC specifically). Your point total does not matter. Someone playing the Silver Surfer in a 20 point game would have fistfuls of Setbacks... but does still get 1 Hero Die.

If you begin with 5 or more Hero Points, that is equivalent to having an additional Hero Die.

I don't think that Saker is saying this would be changed. That's now how I was reading things here. Am I mistaken?

I don't think that Saker is saying this would be changed. That's now how I was reading things here. Am I mistaken?

That's not what I wrote, but Dustland was pointing out the possibility in the math. On the other hand, I didn't have the understanding that everyone starts with 1 hero die regardless of character point total.

By BASHMAN's concept and my hero point math, a 30 point character and a 25 point character would each receive a hero die or 5 hero points. That doesn't make sense to me.

I need to rework the math then. Maybe bring the Hero Point total to 35 points to give me more runway for character progression before hitting the 5 hero point ceiling. This seems the simplest way vs. introducing hero die that isn't calculated from hero points.

Hmmm.

Saker. Let's say you have a 30 point game.

Character A is 25 Character points.

Character B is 30 character points

Character C is 27 Character points.

Character D is 32 Character Points

Character A gets A Hero Die AND 5 Hero Points

Character B gets a Hero Die but no Hero Points

Character C gets a Hero Die AND 3 Hero Points.

Character D gets a Hero Die AND 2 Setbacks.

I got it now. I honestly missed it in the original rules. I don't think Dust and I play that way in his PbP. Maybe others understood it that way.

Don't get me wrong. I like the concept. I think my misunderstanding has to do with the 2 denominations of hero points and dice, because you can get a hero die with 5 points. And maybe the idea of having setbacks and a hero die didn't compute for me. Maybe others will weigh in.

For the living campaign, I can either:
1. clarify this die bonus and points calculation to 30
or
2. just build in the point calculation with the 5 extra points.

Either way it's an improvement derived from this discussion.

Saker wrote: On the other hand, I didn't have the understanding that everyone starts with 1 hero die regardless of character point total. .

Several things to consider.
Unfortunately some of the very important bits of rules are a little *hidden* in the text of BASH! UE. It would be excellent to have a "one sheet" of these type rule-bits spelled out concisely as an appendix of the BASH! book for folks that haven't read line-to-line.

Though for the Hero Point/Dice & Setback Pts / Villain Dice... You may want to consider:
For Example - you may want to have a "recap" section somewhere for when a PC-Hero finishes an adventure with one Narrator, they note down if they gained any Hero Pts. or Setback Pts. (or Fame - Acclaim/Infamy if you're using those rules), so that when they come into another Narrator's game Issue, they either get to KEEP those carry-over, or they convert or they KNOW they'll go away (because then I'd spend them ALL in the issue for sure!).

I've always played that:
- Personal Hero Pts. & Setback Pts. refresh each issue as RAW.

- any HPs & SPs gained in the Issue carry-over issue-to-issue.

- I tell my game group the "general" Campaign Scale of the campaign and let them build ANY power level of PC-Hero they like, knowing they'll get HPs or SPs each issue.

- I rate EACH Issue with an "Issue Scale" based on the adventure and villains and threats for the night's Issue. Then I announce it at beginning of the game, to which each PC-Hero tells me if their Character Point build is above/below that value. Then they get HPs or I get extra SPs for their cost vs. the Issue. Because, to me, that helps balance each Issue and gives PC-Heroes more HPs to play with on the average - unless it's a tiny "milk-run" Issue on patrol or something meant to be a day in the life, fun and easy Issue leading up to something next Issue.




Here are some important lines in the text for you to read, that may be important to pay attention to as you're considering the plan for your Living Campaign...


"Hero Dice can really turn the tide in a desperate situation. All characters begin with one Hero Die each issue." [--BASH! p.20]

"When a Hero is created, any “left over” Character Points become Hero Points that refresh every issue. Narrators can also award Hero Points to players for good play." [--BASH! p.2]

"Each issue, these Personal Hero Points (gained at Character Creation) are refreshed." [--BASH! p.14]

"Personal Setbacks (those gained at Character Creation) can only be spent against the Hero who incurred the Setbacks. So the Narrator cannot use a 40 point character’s Setbacks against the 20 point Hero! The Narrator also begins with a pool of Setbacks that can be used against the entire group, and Heroes can also earn Setbacks for bad behavior." [--BASH! p.14]

"The Narrator begins with a pool of 2 Setbacks per Hero each issue. Additionally, some Villains have their own pool of Setbacks." [--BASH! p.20]

"Hero Points and Setbacks cannot be used to cancel each other. Once a Hero Point has been spent on an action, the Narrator cannot spend a Setback to cancel it, and vice-versa (bidding wars waste points and are in general not fun). ... However, even if a Hero Point or Setback was spent on an action, either side may still elect to spend a Hero or Villain die." [--BASH! p.19]

"In BASH!, the Narrator should tell the players what the enemy’s defense roll was, or how high the difficulty is to defuse the bomb. This is important because it will affect the player’s decision to spend Hero Points, Hero dice, or Push themselves." [--BASH! p.15]


Hope that helps.
I've dug for many different days/hours to figure out some of that fun. It really makes a difference to know the little things in the details of the rules.
-kev-

OK I've rewritten the Hero Point section in the player's section. Does this clarify and hit the mark?

Hero dice & points
Every issue heroes begin with one hero die, which can be converted into five (5) hero points per the rules in BUE, plus an additional amount of hero points. Players calculate these extra hero points as their character’s point total subtracted from 30. For example, if a character is built with 27 character points, she would have three (3) hero points and one hero die. A 20-point character would have one hero die and ten extra (10) hero points, which is effectively three (3) hero dice. To be clear, the one hero die and calculated hero points recharge every issue for use by the character.

If anyone wants to know, the rule of starting with a Hero Die is on p20.

I had no idea this rule existed and it really wasn't where I figured it would be. Learn something new everyday!

kevperrine wrote:Several things to consider.
Unfortunately some of the very important bits of rules are a little *hidden* in the text of BASH! UE. It would be excellent to have a "one sheet" of these type rule-bits spelled out concisely as an appendix of the BASH! book for folks that haven't read line-to-line.

Though for the Hero Point/Dice & Setback Pts / Villain Dice... You may want to consider:
For Example - you may want to have a "recap" section somewhere for when a PC-Hero finishes an adventure with one Narrator, they note down if they gained any Hero Pts. or Setback Pts. (or Fame - Acclaim/Infamy if you're using those rules), so that when they come into another Narrator's game Issue, they either get to KEEP those carry-over, or they convert or they KNOW they'll go away (because then I'd spend them ALL in the issue for sure!).

I’ve actually already created checklists for the player and narrator in the appendix of the character creation rules to use every issue, so people don’t forget things. We’ll review those later when we get to them. I plan to create a document where players can track their adventurers with multiple issues on a page. Everyone comes to the table with a different level of detail, and I would like to provide them easy tools to avoid missing things.

I've always played that:
- Personal Hero Pts. & Setback Pts. refresh each issue as RAW.

- any HPs & SPs gained in the Issue carry-over issue-to-issue.

- I tell my game group the "general" Campaign Scale of the campaign and let them build ANY power level of PC-Hero they like, knowing they'll get HPs or SPs each issue.

- I rate EACH Issue with an "Issue Scale" based on the adventure and villains and threats for the night's Issue. Then I announce it at beginning of the game, to which each PC-Hero tells me if their Character Point build is above/below that value. Then they get HPs or I get extra SPs for their cost vs. the Issue. Because, to me, that helps balance each Issue and gives PC-Heroes more HPs to play with on the average - unless it's a tiny "milk-run" Issue on patrol or something meant to be a day in the life, fun and easy Issue leading up to something next Issue.

How does the draft text represent what you are doing? I want the majority of the living campaign issues to be written at an “Issue Scale” of 30 points. Any exceptional issues will add or subtract hero points from 30.

I am really interested in your experience of issues that you have run at that scale. How big are the bad guys? How many are there? How do the heroes face them in the issue: solo or gang? I need a better feel for “Issue Scale.”

Here are some important lines in the text for you to read, that may be important to pay attention to as you're considering the plan for your Living Campaign...

Hope that helps.
I've dug for many different days/hours to figure out some of that fun. It really makes a difference to know the little things in the details of the rules.
-kev-

First, I want this to be OUR Living Campaign, which is why I’m sharing the character creation rules for discussion. I would greatly appreciate the involvement of as many of the BASH fanatics on this Board as possible.

Second, it may not seem like it, but I have read the book a couple times.

Cheers