gathering a BASH! group?

[kevperrine]

Hey folks,

I'm just looking for some general thoughts. I don't know if it'll change my "plan" but I'd like to hear thoughts based on my idea.

So... okay.
I love superhero comics. I love superheroes. I love the style, themes, and even all the awesome quirkiness of supers. Some people (even some comic readers) just don't "get" the style and genre tropes of superhero stories/characters. And, with that, asking them to play a superhero RPG is... very hit or miss.

Frankly. For my enjoyment (in experience) asking those people... and other people that are excited for playing an RPG, but don't really care that it's a supers campaign.
Asking THESE type people.
I've had just ... unfulfilling experiences in superhero gaming.

For example. My friend Adam is reliable and very solid playing fantasy (and some other) based RPGs. We've had some great campaigns in the 3-4 years I've known him. But we AGREED that we'll likely never play another supers game together. (unless the genre tropes fit his image of supers better)


Now. I've had some fun supers games. I've had some successful campaigns going. But I (have as yet) always ended them BECAUSE the group just didn't live up to MY "standards" of a supers setting/group. The little things, just threw me off.
For example. Of the people I've played supers RPGs with, only 1-2 (of dozens) have actively READ a comic regularly.
Another example. My friend Adam (noted above) ... bless him for trying. Get's confused with the tropes of comics. And (to help me) he DID "study" wikipedia articles on the characters from Marvel Comics in an Avengers based game. But knowing the INFO on a character and reading the STORY flavor is (I've found with him) a vastly different, surprisingly different "understanding" of the character and style...

Now.
My new thought/plan is to gather a new gang to game with. Create a great supers campaign together (using BASH!).
My idea. Normally I "advertise" to gather a new game group (of any kind) in several ways. I ask the friends I've gamed with in the last 4-5 years. I post on our local email/Yahoo Group. I might post on different forums (like RPGnet or the M&M boards, or here on BASH! forums). Then (if I think I need it) I will make a poster with my contact info and post it in local game shops in the vicinity of my home (where we'll play).

That said.
I am THINKING of forgoing almost all of these and going straight to the poster. But THIS TIME I'm considering posting them (primarily) in the 3-4 local comic book shops.

What I'm thinking is making a poster that asks "would you like to play a superhero GAME"... Maybe even do little flyers and ask the comic shop guy to put them in bags for 1-2 weeks.

My thought.
Get people that love comics and may or may not have played an RPG before. I *think* this might work. I'm looking for thoughts though. I'm very open to teaching the game. And I'm positive my "ham it up" Narrating style will have the new players surprised if not excited.

I'm also thinking... I have 1-2 "gamer" friends that enjoy supers and comic books. But (with both of them) I've not had a supers game last that long (mostly due to the other players though).
Should I look to "hold" spots for them? Would it be helpful to have others that know the rules well? My only hesitation is that I'm a little "jaded" by people that KNOW how to make stats before thinking concept.


So...
What do you think on all that?
Doomed to fail no matter what?
Are my "standards" overall just too high?

Do you game with people that LOVE comics and superheroes? Or do you game with gamers that will play supers if that's what the campaign is?

What would you put on a poster for this idea? What words/text to get attention and explain what this is? What imagery to CATCH attention?




Lastly...
I am (sincerely) thinking of making a short "quiz" to ask the potential new players before inviting them to a new campaign.

(I got this idea because my girlfriend wanted me to play a superhero themed "hangman" game on her phone. She was literally flabbergasted when I could GET the answer straight out from the number of letter spaces before asking for a letter! Literally on 9 out of 10 questions. I'm almost embarrassed to say I missed ONE and it was to "name a Teen Titan" with _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ and I couldn't think of FLIPPIN' "KID FLASH"!! hahahhahahah)



Okay.
let me know what you think.
If you live in Seattle and want to help me form a kick * BASH! game group and campaign, PM me!

You'll still have to answer a few .... "questions", heheh....
-kev-

[Nestor]

One of the things to keep in mind is that, even within the comic book genre, there are a wide variety of "flavors," from the four-color antics of the early books to the dark gritty angst of the 90's series. So just saying you want to play a superhero game may not be enough.

I not so long ago came across this problem when a GM stated he wanted to try his hand at a superhero campaign. It was set in modern day with the idea that supers had been around for a while. So I wrote up a retired WWII hero who'd come back to the biz after his wife had passed away.

The problem started when I realized I was playing a traditional four-color hero in an Iron Age world. All my assumptions of how things were supposed to go were flat-out wrong, which potentially could have made for some very good roleplaying (and I did manage to pull off some rather good scenes with the other players) but in the end left me very frustrated since the way he had set it up, there was absolutely no way the heroes could win.

I do heartily agree that communication is the key. You need to let the players know what your base assumptions and "world rules" are, and they need to let you know what their expectations for the game are.

And above all, be flexible and remember, you're all there to have fun.

[Samuraidad]

Kev, in the past I had good success finding players in my LCBS. I didn't really go out of my way to recruit there. But I shared my gaming experiences openly and people who were already comic book fans wanted to play. Some had rpg experience and some didn't. But all were fans. Which DID help. But I did have to GM too...but I'm guessing you don't mind that.

Now, that's not to say that this works best. In fact, my best group ever were my friends from high school. We played everything. I think the key is finding flexible players who are at least willing, who like to have fun, and of course...as has been said...communication is key.

Just my spare change worth

[dugfromthearth]

I think Nestor has shown an issue with gathering groups. Often people think that because two people like comic books, movies, football, or whatever that they share a common interest.

But if someone likes epic space comics from the 80's which are very 4 color, and another likes brutal anti-hero street characters from the 90's - they may find they have nothing in common.

If you are going to be particular about what you want to run you have to spell it out.

Your standards are probably too high. It is easy online to find a group of people who like the same niche you do, but getting those to assemble in real life is much harder. But having players who don't really want to be there or don't really want to be playing the game and are just going along is certainly to be avoided.

[kevperrine]

One of the things to keep in mind is that, even within the comic book genre, there are a wide variety of "flavors,"
...
So just saying you want to play a superhero game may not be enough.
...
I do heartily agree that communication is the key. You need to let the players know what your base assumptions and "world rules" are, and they need to let you know what their expectations for the game are.

Good points. And I agree!
I feel like (in the past) I've done my best to communicate the style, flavor, themes, setting, timeline, etc...
However.
If you're talking in a language a player doesn't speak, it's kind of impossible.

To me... I can say (and know) the type of game I'd be playing in if I hear any of the following, let me give you four quickly settings that I might give to players:


- Watchmen-style, very realistic, with very few actual super powered people. Killing is an option but will be met with repercussions. The game is about a breakdown of what supers are. References: Watchmen comics/movie.

- classic Avengers and JLA style, you are Earth's mightiest heroes. Costumes and big names, gods fighting beside normal humans with an ideal. From big heists to world wide threats. Killing makes you a villain. References: JLU/Avengers Earth's Mightiest cartoon, any classic silverage/modernage Avenger/JLA comic. (I would have specific trades to look at and links to YouTube cuts of the cartoon.)

- X-men Year One teen academy style, you're the chosen of a small (at first) class of mutants. 14-16 year olds that will likely become hereoes (like Avengers) in the future. It's all about training and teaching. Classes mixed with adventures. Rival teen teams and threats to deal with. References: New Mutants comics, X-men Evolution cartoon, Teen Titans cartoon, Claremont or very early X-men comics. (I would have specific trades to look at and links to YouTube cuts of the cartoon.)

- Nocturnals style, "Graveyard Shift" superheroes meet Lovecraft. Halloween style flavor all the time. Normal people "gloss over" these strange powered people, you roam the night with them as part of a police precinct unit set to hold back the weird/creepy evil. Power level is from mystery men to near world class. References: Nocturnals comics, X-files/Call of Cthulhu style (but you can fight back).


Frankly.
Some people, even comic readers, have no clue what I mean by "Claremont" era X-men or "what is Nocturnals". Some take the idea of a game with the X-men Evolutions cartoon as an example and assume that the X-men movies match-up (which is close but not the same).

It's okay to have not read "Nocturnals". But I'd hope for a comic fan to have at least heard of them or be excited to read the comics if offered.

I've not had that experience with players much.

And above all, be flexible and remember, you're all there to have fun.

Easier said than done with you "expect" as much as from your game/group as you love IN comics. heheh

But I did have to GM too...but I'm guessing you don't mind that.

heheh.... I would love love LOVE to play in a great supers campaign with like-minded comic superhero excited people. But even less than good luck than I've had GMing supers games, I've played in exactly one supers game I remember or found memorable and fun. It didn't last long.

And my old thought is... if you can't find it easy, then do it yourself. I did GMing anyway.

I think Nestor has shown an issue with gathering groups. Often people think that because two people like comic books, movies, football, or whatever that they share a common interest.

But if someone likes epic space comics from the 80's which are very 4 color, and another likes brutal anti-hero street characters from the 90's - they may find they have nothing in common.

Yes and no.
I agree sort of... but not completely.

In my experience (with comic friends) you can be "like me" and really enjoy comics... of dozens of different types. There are things I dislike or am not interested in (manga, many DC titles, many X-titles, Vamprilla and that type indie, non-supers comics, etc...) but I can still LOVE everything from Watchmen, to Avengers, to the Ultimate line, to Marvel Zomies, to the FF, to the Invaders, to Batman, to the Defenders, all the way to "Marvel Adventures" (targeted at kids) and fun/funny stuff.

I can really really ENJOY a style, many styles and "pick" a style for a campaign to go with. The people I'm hoping to find, should be able to enjoy the sheer comic book genre tropes from knowing things like the original Batman style, to (dealing with and/or enjoying) the 60s goofy Batman (for what it is and means to the overall legend of Batman), to the Dark Knight Returns, to Bruce Timm's animated series, to his solo style to his place/style on the Justice League teams, to the movies (both Keaton's and Nowlan's).

Batman's a good example of what I'm looking for in a fan/gamer. Batman ranges almost all the gambits of the different genre tropes of supers comics.
I'm not a fan (specifically) of the Batman live action TV show goofiness of the 60s, but I understand their importance and would enjoy a fun reference at that style if presented lightly in an even serious Dark Knight themed game.

If you are going to be particular about what you want to run you have to spell it out.

Well...
That's why I'm thinking. That's why I'm asking for ideas. Because I *think* I have in the past. But inevitably have not gotten the same interest points in return from the entire group.

Your standards are probably too high. It is easy online to find a group of people who like the same niche you do, but getting those to assemble in real life is much harder. But having players who don't really want to be there or don't really want to be playing the game and are just going along is certainly to be avoided.

Agreed.

And as a side note.
Dug - specifically I want to note, this is not regarding the game I Narrated for 1-2 sessions before the holidays. I'd say 3 of 5 players in that game WERE up to my wacky standards 100%. That said, I had to quit due to job crap, I still have that but have niched out a plan for some hobby fun (likely on Fridays).

And I'd think you would agree, I gave LOTS of communication and examples for play.

But... we still ended up with a goofy manga parody and a non-super-non-active-anti-hero who was looking for payment for heroing...
Nothing bad with those styles in a Big Eyes Small Mouth game or a White Wolf game.

But it'd have to be a pretty specific spelled out niche setting to have them in a supers game normally.

I guess the biggest thing I'm looking for (which is great that I'm narrowing things down) is for players that are NOT looking to bring their own characters hijacked from other game ideas to shoehorn into my supers game. heheh...

thanks
-kev-