Basic Action Super Heroes!

Howdy folks! I'm returning to an idea for a BASH Sci-Fi campaign based on a video game that is wildly popular and lends itself to a pen and paper rpg darn near perfectly. I would assume trying to aquire a license for a popular property would be prohibitevly expensive. It was suggested to me to pursue the project as a genre emulator.

The question is, how do you go about letting folks know that your nifty setting book is a genre emulator? Does anyone have any experience with this? I would assume you can't come out and say "If you like game x, then you'll love this game!"

Thoughts?

Even better, if anyone here has experienced the process of negotiating a license, I'd love to talk to you! Feel free to pm me.

What do you mean by “genre emulator”? I’m assuming that you don’t mean a direct port of the game itself into a pen-and-paper game version but rather an entirely new setting that, while totally unique, still shares much of the same flavour of the computer game that inspired you. The best example I can think of is TSR’s old Bughunters game (now owned by Wizards of the Coast and just collecting dust ) which was heavily inspired by the Aliens movie. It changed a few things and had some real innovations (like having the PC’s being memory-implanted clones of “real” humans living safely back on Earth).

I think that this is the way to go. It’s certainly cheaper to create your own setting than license one out – plus YOU, and your team, get all the accolades and all the profit. If art and marketing can invoke the same kind of vibe as your inspiration source, while standing solidly on its own intellectual property, it will attract fans of the computer game as well as create new ones.

That's exactly what I had in mind Mr Jupiter. The only major advantage to operating with a license is the built in publicity. I haven't been able to contact anyone who has experience with the costs involved in a license with a major brand name, so it may remain a mystery unless someone stops by...

I'll start writing as though I don't have the license and if things change, I guess it won't be too difficult to port back over.

Another good example is BASHMAN's "Five Minutes To Midnight" adventure. It shares the same feel and tone as the "Watchmen" but is entirely its own thing. The characters, especially BLACK TIE, are excellent and original.

I think that the whole Genre-Emulator idea is good enough to stand on its own. I mean look at all the old-school D&D setting and system emulators there are out there.

Even going into a different genre you would be ok with just emulating the setting. The key is to get the "feel" of the original while adding enough of yourself into to make your mark on it. It is probably harder than it seems, but I think the end results can deffinatly be worth the work.

Personally I like the idea of creating and emulator over a direct liscense 'cause you can save money for making your own work look and feel better, which will in turn add to its value and word-of-mouth advertising.

-Chris

Dustland wrote:That's exactly what I had in mind Mr Jupiter. The only major advantage to operating with a license is the built in publicity. I haven't been able to contact anyone who has experience with the costs involved in a license with a major brand name, so it may remain a mystery unless someone stops by...

I'll start writing as though I don't have the license and if things change, I guess it won't be too difficult to port back over.

That’s true. Such a popular computer game will already have sizable brand recognition. The steep licensing fees (and I’m just guessing here) will be a reflection of the huge investment they’ve made in advertising that brand. I’d recommend ignoring them and spend just half of that money on marketing your own unique product. If it is distinctive and shares the same atmosphere it will be much more valuable for you.

Given a choice between a quality remake of Bughunters (with a better system) and a genuine Aliens licensed role-playing game I’d… well, I’d get both, quite honestly: but I I’d appreciate the Bughunters setting more… ‘cause it’s better!

Bughunters is very similar and yet so different. My players would be confronting the unknown – which is scarier. With Aliens everyone who has seen the movie has a very good idea of what they will be up against. They will also be comparing the game experience to what they seen in the movie, which is another layer of concern for the GM /Narrator. It’s not fun when a player criticizes how you use those elements in a way that is different to what they know from their movie experiences.

When you create an original work that is good, you will build your own loyal fans who will create fan sites dedicated to carrying it on long after the book is out of print and your company has folded (I’m just referring to TSR’s Bughunters, Alternity, and Star Frontiers games here – I hope yours lasts forever). Maybe they will even be trying to buy the license for it from you…

Gramvandle wrote:I think that the whole Genre-Emulator idea is good enough to stand on its own. I mean look at all the old-school D&D setting and system emulators there are out there.

Even going into a different genre you would be ok with just emulating the setting. The key is to get the "feel" of the original while adding enough of yourself into to make your mark on it. It is probably harder than it seems, but I think the end results can deffinatly be worth the work.

Personally I like the idea of creating and emulator over a direct liscense 'cause you can save money for making your own work look and feel better, which will in turn add to its value and word-of-mouth advertising.

-Chris

Okay. I think I have a better idea of what you mean by “Genre-Emulator” now. Yeah, sounds cool. I’ll sit down now…

You were closer to what I consider the basis for an emulator than you may think Mr. Jupiter. I think the best feature of doing such a thing is being able to take your favorite memories of something, say Alien, and being able to add your own twist to it.

The only major worry is getting the feel of what your after while not totally copying it. Personally I don't like most Liscensed material since, as you were alluding too, the Players already know what's 'supposed' to happen.

Look at the movie Titanic. Who was really surprised at the ending LOL

Thanks Gramvandle. As for the Titanic, I was kind feeling that Jack was in for a sad demise before the movie came to an end... but the sinking of the ship? {kidding}

A good trick for swinging things a little would be to ask a whole bunch of "what if..." questions. It's a great exercise for finding unique tweeks to explore.

I hadn't really considered the "hey, we know what happens" angle. I think that was always a problem with the Dragonlance series for my gaming group growing up. Despite the rich source material and vast campaign setting, everyone was always thinking, "Ok, but we're still not THE heroes here, and when do I get my dragonlance?"

I'm sold, not going to worry about the license now (not that I really thought it would make sense financially). Time to start writing and drawing it looks like...

Good Luck!!

-Chris

Dustland wrote:Despite the rich source material and vast campaign setting, everyone was always thinking, "Ok, but we're still not THE heroes here, and when do I get my dragonlance?

I like the fact that licensed settings have such a low buy-in. Everybody 'gets' the Star Wars universe, for example, but I totally agree that it can leave the players feeling like second-stringers. Not playing Luke or Han during the rebellion era can feel like being little more than a movie extra. I find that the same is true with supers settings. My setting is very much a Gotham-a-like but it is not Gotham. One of the main reasons for this is that I did not want the PCs feeling as though the shadow of the Bat was constantly hanging over them. In my experience players want to be the heroes, they want to be centre stage.

You know it would be fun to set up a campaign where everyone knew that the players were just the second stringers. Kind of like being the Avenger's reserve team. The point being that they'd always be struggling to get out from under their mighty shadow...

Otherwise, as doktorelektron pointed out, by capturing the essence of a setting with something that the players know is an emulation, for instance Gotham - but not Gotham, then they feel more ownership.

Dustland wrote: The question is, how do you go about letting folks know that your nifty setting book is a genre emulator? Does anyone have any experience with this? I would assume you can't come out and say "If you like game x, then you'll love this game!"

Thoughts?

Isn't this what a bibliography is for?
Or a letter from the author (at beginning or end) of the product?
Or a section (paragraph) in the first chapter, the "how to" chapter...

Any/all noting what INSPIRES this idea?

I've seen many game products that are "analogues"... "A similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump."
And they LIST those in the bibliography section at the end "for more inspiration" to the reader. Or flat out mention the "emulated genre" in the opening, as a thank you or "love letter" to the original.

This "genre emulation" isn't anything new. Comic companies (any company with a product really) has had it's products "emulated". When something becomes popular some look to recreate it with their own twists. Some do so with barely any changes at all.

Comic Book superhero universes do this all the time.
Almost every character you can name in Marvel or DC has an analogue in the other.


Aquaman = Namor
Flash = Quicksilver
Green Arrow = Hawkeye
WonderWoman = Ms. Marvel
Superman = Thor (or Sentry or Gladiator)
Batman = Moonknight (or Daredevil)

etc.... etc....

As for locations and settings.
Metropolis IS New York City.
Gotham is said to be as Chicago.

As for other RPGs and companies. Look at M&M's Freedom City. It's clearly a love letter to ALL of the DC Universe, with touches of Marvel and some of their own originals.

There is no harm or foul in doing this. In my experience it's actually better received from fans (buyers) when the author notes the "inspirations". That way there's the respect given due. As well as another source for the creator of their own home game to go to.

I've often suggested source material that my players can reference, read, or just be aware of for a campaign I'm planning.
I've done major campaigns based on the IDEA of the Justice League Unlimited animated series - building my own "big 7" original JLA members for NPCs, then having each player make 3 PCs each to pick for missions big and small.

And in my current campaign - it's 100% based on the Nocturnals comic book series. But since many of my players may never have read or seen the comic (since it's sorta obscure) I added the comments that other inspirations would be:
Hellboy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Tim Burton's style, Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos...
All set in our own original city that's an "overlay" on the real world city of Traverse City, MI - called Rust City. Essentially the weird strange creepy overlay, Rust City, at night and in the day it's Traverse City to anyone else (that can't see the weird stuff). Same location, same street layout, some modern day, etc... Just with our weird added.
We even have our own "big boy" Justice League team out there in MegaCity someplace:
Solar = Superman
Knightfall = Batman
Chaser = Flash
etc...


So.
This genre emulation is not original, it's authors taking cool things they like and making analogy - re-imagining them in their own imagination. Different color schemes, different catch phrases, different details - same STYLE and themes.

Do it, thank the inspirations...
that's my opinion or advice
-kev-

With supers games, I always feel torn between an original setting vs. an established comic book 'verse. We ended up going with an MC2 inspired setting, which is kind of a happy medium (definitely Marvel, but with a lot more room to play around with new stuff).

But if I were writing/publishing a rules set, I definitely wouldn't want the headache of a licensed setting, even if the price was right. Getting the license holder to approve every little detail before you can go to print, having the hardcore fans rip the parts of the game that they don't think accurately reflect the source material (which I've done with the Star Wars rpgs for years ). It just doesn't seem worth it. So I would definitely go with Kev's idea.