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BASH! vs. M&M?

Talk about anything, but keep it civil
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Sijo
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Post by Sijo »

Dragonfly:

Thanks for the information! I too had the "Blue Book" and, despite not being a fan of its rules, always liked the Champions setting. I will give Champions Complete a look later; even if I dislike the rules I can always convert the characters to BASH! for example. ;)

Good luck with your project!
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doktorelektron
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Post by doktorelektron »

Dragonfly wrote:They are not, however, omitting many rules (just one or two), so it'll remain 99% the complete Sixth Edition rules. As such, play will remain what it's usually been, which is far more complex and time consuming than what you find in BASH!, SUPERS!, and other rules lite options.
This is why I'll be looking at it but almost certainly won't be playing it.

Also, as I understand it, the fluff will be Champions Online related.
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Dragonfly
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Post by Dragonfly »

Hey Sijo!

To bring this back to BASH! UE - If you like the classic champions universe, you should check out my BASH! conversions of many of the characters. You'll find links to the character sheets here:

http://www.bashtalk.org/modules.php?nam ... sc&start=0

The first post includes an index with links to Scribd files.

You might also want to check out my BASH! UE Classic Champions campaign. It basically involved running the VIPER's Nest, while weaving in origins for characters like Ogre, Mechanon, Arrowhead, and various other PCs and NPCs into the mix.

The write-ups are all here:

http://www.bashtalk.org/modules.php?nam ... topic&t=67

The actual adventure write-ups start about four posts in.

Cheers!

Dragonfly
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Sijo
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Post by Sijo »

Aha! I knew someone around here had to have done Champions conversions! Thanks, Dragonfly! :)
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bigsteveuk
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Post by bigsteveuk »

I think M&M is very good and it is fantatisc at handling powers, but it is fairly crunchy. I found the rules were getting in the way of play at times and so I moved to BASH which thus far is working very well.

I have had to fiddle bits and bobs so the character transfered ok. I would love to see a book which adds some new powers etc.
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Solarblast
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Post by Solarblast »

I have been playing Champions since it first came out in 1981. I have truly considered it to be my favorite RPG system around. It is very flexible and a lot of fun. Unfortunately it also has a large amount of crunch to it and that can be a problem. It stopped running after I found BASH because I got tired of being the only one to know the rules and having to make everyone’s character for them. BASH just works so well for me because everyone can be make their own character, they can understand the system in a rather short amount of time and I can convert most 4th edition Champions characters with little difficulty.
I have played M&M a couple of times but it have never been able to figure out how to make a character. The system just throws me. I have played it and a good time when I did but I ended up just taking an example character from the book. Still, if someone wanted to run for me I would play just because I love superheroes, I just don’t see myself ever Gming it myself.
BASH is just like a really good cup of coffee, it hits the spot!
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Sijo
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Post by Sijo »

Yeah, I have to agree that what makes BASH! appealing to me is that it is less complicated than Champions and similar games. The rules are less number-crunchy (well at least in the Basic edition, which is what I have so far) and the scenarios I've seen have been logical, short and good (in fact, it was the free Christmas BASH! adventure, that I got from DriveThruRPG, that first got me interested in the game, precisely because I found it so perfectly captured that charm from the Silver and Bronze ages of comics that few seem to do well these days.)

As for character creation, I've always felt that the best combo is Character Classes WITH customization options. Some people like to create their characters from the ground up; others just want to grab a character and just start playing already. This offers the best of both worlds. Yet rarely do I see it implemented well. (I really want to learn more about BASH's Templates and Power Sets, and see much they help here.)
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Solarblast
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Post by Solarblast »

Sijo wrote:Aha! I knew someone around here had to have done Champions conversions! Thanks, Dragonfly! :)
Here are some I did.
http://bashtalk.org/modules.php?name=Fo ... opic&t=805
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Sijo
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Post by Sijo »

Ohh! The original Champions! Yes, those were my favorite version too. Thanks!
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akira0238
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Post by akira0238 »

We actually tried M&M 2nd ed before I discovered BASH. I'm one of those gamers that really loves crunchy and lengthy chargen.. probably because Palladium's Heroes Unlimited was my first hero game. However, that crunch love doesn't translate to the game itself. I prefer faster, slicker, and more cinematic rules for hero games (if I wanted crunchy wargame rules, I'd whip out Star Trek Tactical Combat). I did love fiddling around with M&M Chargen once I wrapped my brain around the "effects based" concept. However, in play we were instantly bogged down and combat became something we avoided just so we could get through a scenario. ..enter BASH.. Now I may not get that perverse thrill from 2 hour chargen.. (making NPCs is a lot easier, though!) but MAN does combat flow much more smoothly! I'm really hoping to try to shift our group towards utilizing the BASH system for other games (still working on the Mass Effect conversion).
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