Zenith Comics Presents: The New Centurions! (OOC Thread)

[Volsung]

Gosh, Mindstream's chosen one seems so versatile and gifted that I wonder if she wouldn't be more effective without Zero

Captain Max acts first, but in the meantime we can think of our teamwork.

We need a player to handle high chances to hit and the other to handle high damage.
And describe this as a valid teamwork.

My arm blaster is the only attack that suits the situation.
You got your own blast power, and telekinesis which could work.
What about flatten him on the ground with telekinesis so I could fire him a huge point blank blast (X8 dmg!)?
(Suddenly I don't feel much heroic )

[Volsung]

"But to defy a whole group of super heroes... You're outnumbered... What do you hope to accomplish?"

Ok^^ I begin to see what he hoped^^;


I admit i'm a bit lost (headache don't help)
First let's check the rules^^

Burst
Most powers with the Burst effect do not roll to hit the targets.
If the targets wish to avoid the effects, they roll a Defense roll
or Athletics/Acrobatics check. If they get 19 or less, they are
fully affected by the power. If they get 20+ they take half the
effect, 30+ they take a third of the effect, 40+ they take no
effect. If the power is something Mental, or something that
cannot be divided, such as Daze or Immobilization, then the
attacker makes a single attack roll, and all the targets (or each
group of minions) make their own separate defense roll against it.
PUSH
1-5 pts, Range, Area
This power enables the user to push enemies or objects with
great force. Essentially, it functions exactly like the Special
Attack power with a few exceptions. Push does double the
Damage Multiplier that an equivalent Special Attack would-
but instead of damage that reduces a target’s Hits, Push only
does knock-back (see page 19). When fguring out the Range
on Push, use the power’s level (it does no actual damage).
Being knocked back doesn’t hurt- unless you are knocked into
something! If Push is bought with an area all people in the
area are automatically affected. If purchased without range,
the user can choose to use a Brawn contest instead of Agility
to affect the target (armor won’t help the target). Common
representations of this power include- creating powerful winds
to blow back enemies, using judo moves to throw enemies, or
using powerful slams to create shockwaves that force enemies back

I admit i'm quite concerned about the civilians.

[Volsung]

Ok, so i guess you have to roll your push damage.
With the burst your first roll is useless.

My danger sense rise my defense to x5 and I'll soak with a x6
I must dodge thiiiis!

[Lindharin]

This has Burst 2 on it as well! So I think I am doing that right, he get's 3 for his DM, which will be x10 as it is Push and 2 points for his Area... with a max Range of Long. If that isn't right someone please let me know... otherwise resist please.

I'm not sure how the 3 DM and x10 relate to each other, unless one of them is a typo. Do you mean it is 3 DM for a total of x6 knockback? Or is it x5 DM for a total of x10 knockback?

If you meant the first, then his Push DM of x3 (before doubling) seems a little low. Are you adding in the relevant stat in addition to his ranks in Push allocated to DM? Which stat is a little questionable; strictly by the book, you use Mind for any area effects. However, if you look in the Archetypes, the big brick types with point-blank bursts use Brawn since there is no range involved. The Behemoth, for example, has Push 3 with all 3 points going to his Burst size, but still does x10 knockback because he has a x5 Brawn. I've been meaning to post a question about that for Bashman, so I'll do it in a minute.

Regardless of Hammer's actual Push roll, it looks like we all need to make either an Athletics/Acrobatics check or a Defense check (not counting Deflect, if any, since it is an area) to reduce the effect, against the difficulties Zero posted above in the Burst definition. And then we all have a static resistance of 10 x Brawn that the Push knockback has to overcome.

Does that sound right?

I admit i'm quite concerned about the civilians.

Well, with a Burst 2 (Medium Burst) centered on himself if it has no range, it only affects targets within maybe 3 squares (or 5 at the most, depending on how you interpret a burst with no range; are you in the center or at the edge?). Either way, I think the civilians are out of the area. They shouldn't be in too much danger unless he knocks a nearby object (like us or maybe nearby cars) back into them. Bowling for Mayors, anyone?

[Volsung]

Ok! So i've got to make an athletic or defense check,Divide the damage according to my roll if necessary, and then subtract Brawn x 10?
We're not supposed to soak?

[Lindharin]

Bashman just clarified (in the rules forum) that the line in the Push power about area-of-effect Push means there is no roll to dodge.

Here's the rules for Knockback from page 19:

Every point of damage rolled on an attack knocks the opponent back 1 foot- reduced by their Brawn x10. If this reduces the number of feet to zero or less the character is not knocked back at all.
<snip>
Being knocked back does no additional damage- unless you are knocked into something solid. In that case, treat it as falling damage (1DM for every 10 feet). A character who is knocked back is also knocked down. Getting up uses half your movement squares (round down).

So I think that we don't need to roll anything. AslanC rolls his Push DM, doubles it, and that is how many feet of knockback we take. Each target reduces that distance by -10' per Brawn, and gets thrown back any remaining distance. Whether we take any damage would depend on what (if anything) we hit and how far we are knocked back.

And if we are knocked back, we end up prone, losing half a move to stand up (unless you can kip-up with the appropriate Martial Arts style).

Tempest has Brawn 4, so takes -40' of Knockback.

[Volsung]

[AslanC]

x10 was me being tired and mixing up the double mod for the PUSH and the x10 Brawn off of Knockback

That said;

When figuring out the Range on Push, use the power’s level (it does no actual damage).

So what he is supposed to have here is a Push 5... max Push, with the basic range and 2 points of Burst, which would give a DM of 3, since 2 points are needed for the Burst no?

I will confess I am a tad confused by this power.

[Lindharin]

Ah, I think the line about "When figuring out the Range on Push, use the power’s level" is referring to this line from Range on page 40:

The distance your power can affect (at Mid range and higher) is based on the power’s damage multiplier (if any) or its level (if no damage multiplier).

Mid range and higher are listed as multipliers, not flat ranges. So a mid range power has a range of x5 times either the DM (if it does damage) or rank (if it doesn't do damage). For Push, since it doesn't really do damage, it is saying use its rank when figuring out range.

So that said, let's see what happens here...

Bashman clarified that the stat you use for determining damage (for both Special Attack and Push) depends a bit on the concept. If the character is using his might to slam the ground or the target then it should be Brawn. Otherwise, the default is Mind for area attacks.

I don't know Hammer's stats, so for an example let's say he has Brawn 5 and Mind 3, plus Push 5 defined as +3 DM and 2 points for area so a Medium Burst.

If he's slamming the ground (or doing the uber-clap that Superman does sometimes), then it would use his Brawn as the base, for a total DM of 5+3=x8. If he's using some kind of wind control due to his spinning or something, then it would be based on Mind, so the total DM would be 3+3=x6. And since it is Push, the actual knockback distance (in feet) would be twice that (so x16 or x12!).

If you have a high base stat, you don't need much Push to get a lot of knockback. That's why in the archetypes, the Behemoth for example only takes Push 2 and assigns both ranks to buy his Area, so he has +0 DM from the Push power. Since the base is his Brawn 5, he's still getting a x5 DM (which is doubled for x10 knockback).

It sounds like you're looking for a high-end Push, which based on the archetypes means you're aiming for at least a x10 knock-back. That means you want a minimum DM of x5 (before the doubling). You need to decide which stat your type of Push is based on, and then add enough ranks of Push allocated as bonus to DM to bring that up to 5 (if it isn't already). Then buy the amount of area you want.

I apologize, I'm not sure I'm explaining this well. Did that help at all?

[AslanC]

No that's fine.

He would be slapping his hands together (ala the Ever Lovin' Blue Eyed Thing!) and cause a shock wave of air.

So Brawn...

5 + 3 = x8, which get's doubled... to x16 Knockback!

His range would be 3 and a Burst of 2.

Or am I reading that all wrong?

[Lindharin]

That is mostly correct except I don't think he gets Range 3 for free. You are right that it would be x8 DM, for x16 Knockback, but it would be centered on himself doing a Burst 2. Just like Special Attack, he has to put points into range to get a range.

That line you quoted earlier isn't saying you get range for free. It just means that when the range table on page 40 refers to "the power’s damage multiplier (if any) or its level (if no damage multiplier)", in the case of Push it uses the later option (level or rank, instead of DM).

If I'm right and you do want a little range on it, then you could change your Push to +2 DM, Close Range, Medium Burst for the same cost. It would be x7 DM (x14 knockback), in a Burst 2, that starts somewhere within 5 squares of you.

As always, that's just my understanding. And you can always handle it any way that makes sense for you.

[AslanC]

That seems mostly reasonable to me, though I am a bit confused by the Range comment from the power.

Bashman?

[Lindharin]

(I guess The Elemental can take it )

You know, that made me go back and look at the Aslan's damage rolls more closely, and I just realized they should be higher. The damage from Knockback is 1 DM per 10' (2 squares), not per 10 squares (50').

I took a look at my damage and soak, and I still soak it all. The Elemental should be taking 4x6=24 damage which still shouldn't be tough for him to Soak.

There will need to be a damage roll and soak for Numinous, probably.

Sorry, I missed it earlier.

[AslanC]

This is what it says in the book;

10 squares = +1DM
20 Squares = +2DM
40 Squares = +3DM
80+ Squares = +4DM

So that means my numbers are right, divide Feet by 5 and that's the number of squares.

Right?

[Lindharin]

Are those the numbers for Momentum instead of falling damage?

Being knocked back does no additional damage- unless you are knocked into something solid. In that case, treat it as falling damage (1DM for every 10 feet).

When you hit the ground, you take x1 Dmg for every building story (about 10 feet) you fall to terminal velocity of x10. So falling from a 5 story building causes you to take x5 Dmg. Falling from a 10, 13, or 20 story building causes x10 Dmg. Note that being knocked back into an object is treated the same as falling damage in most respects.