THE DEFENDERS "Earth's Last Best Hope" [OOC Chat

[kevperrine]

1. Read the section of using weapons. HtH weapons have their multiplier of x2 or x3 AND get to add +5 for each level of Brawn. I thought a big sword was x3. Normally equipment breaks with that much damage, but that's magicalness of your items, I guess.

2. Weapon Technique only goes to 2, so your x2 sword would do x4 (base x2 + x2 for WT) +20 Brawn, which is effectively x7 damage!

No. Unless you're counting something else, the Brawn Result Bonus maxes out at +15.
So wouldn't that mean that Valk's sword would be either:

2-Handed: Dmg x5+15 (max of +15 for her Brawn)
1-Handed: Dmg x4+15
Whereas her normal Punch would be: Dmg x6 (because it's NOT a "power" she's modifying, so I assume it CAN break the "maximum" of x5 DM, correct?)

hehe, the rules do note that strong characters are better off with simple HtH or with improvised weapons (dumpsters to dump trucks).
So you might wanna think about making her sword a Special Attack instead? I'm fine as it, just a thought for you.

3. You could save another 2 pts limiting Attack Weak Point & Disarm Expert to using weapons. I mentioned that before, because I didn't see her doing kung fu or using guns to disarm people from range.

Good idea.

Doctor Strange will use red. Here's my reasoning for 5 vs 3 Mind

My only concern or reply about one of your main reasonings... I LOVE minimizing the point cost while maximizing the results when it's appropriate. When doing so BREAKS the concept (in this case Dr. Strange being a world-renown neorosurgeon at x3 Mind "genius" which makes sense, to him being a ridiculous x5 Mind "greatest mind in history") I think that goes from "good" Mini-Maxing to Power Gaming.

I strongly disagree with you building him that way, because of cost as a reason. Does that not make sense?
But, as I said... I will allow it, mostly because:
a. it's YOUR way to interpret YOUR character
b. it's not my home-table game, it's a PbP (which I'm less of a stickler with)

1. Replace Physically Challenged (PC) disadvantage with Unskilled. I didn't think PC was that limiting. It only prevented him performing neurosurgery, which was an explanation for why an intelligent, driven guy became the Sorcerer Supreme. His PC was not being blind or a paraplegic, which is physically challenged.

That makes a good fun bit of sense to me! Totally.

5. Mind 5 removes the need to have 3 powers. I prefer simpler builds.

Eh... having a "simpler" build while ignoring the concept isn't something I'd do, sacrificing the idea of the character.
Again though...
I am NOT poo-pooing your wish to build him this way. If you enjoy it more, I'm totally fine with it for the PbP. I'm just voicing my concern for building characters (or modeling existing) overall.

SIDEBAR mini-Rant:
I really really dislike the power-creep that happens in alot of games. When the rules don't fit a player's wish to succeed. My point. Look at the Stat Rank of x5 ... Rank 5 SHOULD be the Upper Echelon of World Class supers. In the case of Dr. Strange - I 100% agree that he IS in that "upper echelon" of supers, but ONLY in his key categories - being much of his magic ability. I'd even say his Neurosurgeon skill and any Occult/Magic Skills could be in the x5 to x7 range. And any (or your choice) of his powers could easily be x5+.

But... his skill or basic intelligence level, while definitely being his "best" stat is not in the Reed Richards category. AND to prove the point in reverse - Reed Richards' MIND should not really be in the x5 range for mental attacks and such, as they WOULD be with Professor X. Hence, I've often built those type characters with a Boost to their specific stat to limit that. It'd be nice to have a Disadvantage or Limitation ability to apply directly TO the stat actually. To make it more "simple" of a build.

But overall.
Just building a power or stat to Level x5 because it's more efficient, is the same thing as a "power creep" for NOT wanting to take a x1 in a stat or power.
If the Narrator doesn't pay attention to the fact that the extremes (on both ends) need to matter, then players will ignore the x1 and give WAY TOO MANY characters higher ranks than they realistically should have. Just adding to the "arms race" of building power/stat levels...

To me... Superheroes/villains are just as much about failing (with fun) than always succeeding.

I would appreciate any suggestions for his three Contacts. My first thoughts are the Fantastic Four, the Ancient One and New York Hospital.

The general "New York Hospital system" or "World Wide Neurosurgeon Field" would both work. The NYC hospitals would be much more specific for "help" if you needed a hospital, whereas the surgeon field would be helpful more broadly but less directly.

I already gave some... but more specifically named character ideas I have, your choice in the areas of:

MAGIC: Clea, Ancient One (Yan), Brother Voodoo (Jericho Drumm), Son of Satan (Daimon Hellstrom), Dr. Druid (Anthony Ludgate), Shaman (Dr. Michael Twoyoungmen), Agatha Harkness, Dr. Doom (Victor Von Doom).

SCIENCE (doctor): Dr. Moira MacTaggert, Hank Pym, Dr. Bruce Banner (but not his alter ego "the Hulk" the world doesn't know Banner is the Hulk yet), Tony Stark (but not his alter ego "IronMan"), Reed Richards.

SUPERS: IronMan (but not his secret Identity "Tony Stark"), Reed Richards, Namor, Black Bolt [these make sense as part of the "Illuminati" group].


hope that helps!
-kev-

[kevperrine]

That said, are you okay with her connections back to Asgard and the way I've made her "Iconic?" Tried to capitalize on relationships with Odin, Thor, Enchantress, her wandering aimless after Odin shut down her bidness, her friendship with Enchantress and the sorceress' "imprisoning" Valkyrie. (In the original comics, in a crystal. Here, on Midgard.)

Totally cool!! It's a solid part of her origins.
I might also suggest looking at the other (legion) of the Valkyrie and such. She's got alot going for her, even though she's a lesser known hero.

rock on!
-kev-

[Saker]

@Harrigan

Shouldn't your Stunning Pose be x3 (x1 Mind + x2 Appeal)? Glad you liked the suggestions. Totally understand the M'arts perspective. I really like Valkyrie.

@Kev

I appreciate your perspective and allowing me to keep it as built. I'll be updating the char sheet to include NYC hospitals, Reed & Ancient One.

[Dragonfly]

Hey guys!

I know I'm not involved in this game, but this caught my attention.

I really really dislike the power-creep that happens in alot of games. When the rules don't fit a player's wish to succeed. My point. Look at the Stat Rank of x5 ... Rank 5 SHOULD be the Upper Echelon of World Class supers. In the case of Dr. Strange - I 100% agree that he IS in that "upper echelon" of supers, but ONLY in his key categories - being much of his magic ability. I'd even say his Neurosurgeon skill and any Occult/Magic Skills could be in the x5 to x7 range. And any (or your choice) of his powers could easily be x5+.

But... his skill or basic intelligence level, while definitely being his "best" stat is not in the Reed Richards category. AND to prove the point in reverse - Reed Richards' MIND should not really be in the x5 range for mental attacks and such, as they WOULD be with Professor X. Hence, I've often built those type characters with a Boost to their specific stat to limit that. It'd be nice to have a Disadvantage or Limitation ability to apply directly TO the stat actually. To make it more "simple" of a build.

I tend to agree with you, Kev. Brawn and Agility don't suffer from this so much, but there are actually few (if any) characters that should have a Mind 5 in ALL aspects of that rather broad Stat. That being said, something about a Reed Richards or a Doctor Strange with a Mind 5 just didn't sit right with me, and it certainly doesn't fit the way that most people play the game. I finally resolved the issue for myself with the following new Disadvantages:

Normal Will: Your character might have a powerful intellect, but he or she is no more reslilient to mental stresses than most humans. Characters with this Disadvantage suffer -2 to Mental Denfese.

Science Obsessed: Your character is brilliant, but almost exclusively focused on science and technology. Your character suffers a -2 multiplier when using his or her Mind stat for anything other than science and technology.

Sorcery Obsessed: Your character is brilliant, but almost exclusively focused on the study of magic. Your character suffers a -2 multiplier when using his or her Mind stat for anything other than magic, mysticism, and related lore.

Perhaps you find these to be power gaming too, but I thought I'd bring up the options, just in case folks found them interesting. I'm too busy with work these days, or I'd jump on the Defenders game if I could. Looks like fun!

Best,

Dragonfly

[Harrigan]

It's interesting how every system I've ever used for Supers (MSH, GURPS, Hero, Underground, SAS, M&M, you name it) has this power game / stat creep thing seemingly deep-seated. M&M is really a pretty fantastic toolbox for building supers, but it suffers immensely from the Power Level Attack / Defense paradigm. 90% of people immediately max the bar out, working with tradeoffs, etc., when in fact it's perfectly okay for a PL10 character to have +5 attack and +7 damage.

I digress.

With Bash!, I think part of what's attracting me is the simplicity of the three stat with boost in the background to make up for all the exceptions. Blending social, will, intellect, psyche, mystic all into one ball of wax is a *lot*, and quite frankly I think to really qualify for Mind 5 you're practically a cosmic being -- something kind of unfathomable in terms of how smart / willful / psychic it is. The Beyonder, a Celestial, etc.

I can see Dr. Doom having immense Mind, because he's got it all -- intellect, sorcery, will... so it might seem strange, but his mind is probably *stronger* than Reed's. Bit Reed is smarter and more resourceful -- which I think is simply where Boost comes in. Doom at Mind 5, Reed at Mind 4 + some Boost for inventing and such.

I have a hard time with characters like Professor X and Doc Strange. Enormously *powerful* minds, but definitely not in the same way as some of the nerd brains.

Anyway, stream of consciousness, apologies for that. Will chew on Dragonfly's new disads and see if they're the answer...

[Harrigan]

1. Read the section of using weapons. HtH weapons have their multiplier of x2 or x3 AND get to add +5 for each level of Brawn. I thought a big sword was x3. Normally equipment breaks with that much damage, but that's magicalness of your items, I guess.

2. Weapon Technique only goes to 2, so your x2 sword would do x4 (base x2 + x2 for WT) +20 Brawn, which is effectively x7 damage!

No. Unless you're counting something else, the Brawn Result Bonus maxes out at +15.
So wouldn't that mean that Valk's sword would be either:

2-Handed: Dmg x5+15 (max of +15 for her Brawn)
1-Handed: Dmg x4+15
Whereas her normal Punch would be: Dmg x6 (because it's NOT a "power" she's modifying, so I assume it CAN break the "maximum" of x5 DM, correct?)

hehe, the rules do note that strong characters are better off with simple HtH or with improvised weapons (dumpsters to dump trucks).
So you might wanna think about making her sword a Special Attack instead? I'm fine as it, just a thought for you.

Not following you here. The sword (pretty clearly one-handed in the comics) is x2, plus the x2 from Weapon Technique, plus the +15 (not 20) from Brawn. So the sword blow is x4+15 -- pretty tough.

How is it you're seeing her HTH damage behind something other than her base Brawn of x4?

(One of the reasons I like this is because it incentivizes her to use weapons, which is in-keeping with the character as Saker stated earlier.)

[kevperrine]

the following new Disadvantages:
...
Perhaps you find these to be power gaming too, but I thought I'd bring up the options, just in case folks found them interesting. I'm too busy with work these days, or I'd jump on the Defenders game if I could. Looks like fun!

Dude! You should SO jump in the Defenders game! heheh!!
Anyway.
No. I think you're on the right track. I would really like to know what others think. Especially an official thought from BASHMAN on your ideas or other ways to "fix" this.

I was considering writing up an article expanding and more clearly presenting my thoughts/arguments for the x1 stat/rank and the resistance to the "power creep" of players sliding their x3 or x4 character into a x4 or x5 rank JUST for point cost and maximizing the efficiency of power even if it "breaks" the honest ability level the character's background or concept is intended for. I think the Heightened power can factor in this thought a good deal - but this overall practical thinking (when building) really REALLY needs some good "sidebar" thoughts in the core rules to give players and Narrators some PERSPECTIVE.

Anyway...
To help a little in knowing if your new Disadvantage ideas are solid I'd look to see if they are balanced with cost.
Let me try.

Normal Will: Your character might have a powerful intellect, but he or she is no more reslilient to mental stresses than most humans. Characters with this Disadvantage suffer -2 to Mental Denfese.

I assume you mean -2 Multiplier Penalty?
Okay.
You'd be PAYING 4 Character Points for a MIND stat that effects:
- Damage Multiplier for ranged attacks
- DM for attacks using many Powers
- to hit & DM for Mental attacks
- all MIND checks vs. various Powers (such as Daze)
- any skill rolls (including default skill rolls at -1 MP)

and you're getting back 1 Character Point for the Disadvantage that effects:
- -2 Multiplier Penalty to Mental Defense to be hit

Correct?
That seems okay, but you might want to write in the addition of not being able to use MIND vs. Powers (like Daze) if the Character's "will" is normal.

No?

Science Obsessed: Your character is brilliant, but almost exclusively focused on science and technology. Your character suffers a -2 multiplier when using his or her Mind stat for anything other than science and technology.

Sorcery Obsessed: Your character is brilliant, but almost exclusively focused on the study of magic. Your character suffers a -2 multiplier when using his or her Mind stat for anything other than magic, mysticism, and related lore.

I really like the idea of these... But I'd flip-flop them.

'cause, the only problem I see with these are costs. You're paying 4 Character Points, getting a return of 1 CP (for the DISAD) for a total cost of 3 CPs for the x2 Multiplier Bonus to Skills (excluding "defaulting" because a default skill roll might not BE in the category selected of science or sorcery).

OR are you also including that "obsession" being Skills AND any powers that are listed as that obsession in origin?? The only problem there is there is no official "keyword" that gives a power an "origin" to point to...


What about INSTEAD of making it a Disadvantage, you instead make it an Advantage...? Making it a cost total of 1 CP (for the ADV) and not spending 4 Character Points for the extra 2 Stat ranks. But still GETTING the +2 Multiplier Bonus for those skills in that Stat rank.

Isn't that COST more "fair" in regards to the overall Cost/Benefit of how the rest of BASH! multipliers and bonuses work?

Then again... isn't THAT handled by just buying more SLOTS in the skill?? hmmmm, confusing myself!!....


For that matter...
What about SIMPLIFYING those even more and just narrowing it to ONE Advantage called "Obsessed" - giving the player the option to CHOOSE their Obsession (sorcery, science, etc...)

ARG!!
This needs some thinking. Maybe it should get moved to it's own thread in the rules forum threads?
Anyone??
-kev-

[kevperrine]

It's interesting how every system I've ever used for Supers (MSH, GURPS, Hero, Underground, SAS, M&M, you name it) has this power game / stat creep thing seemingly deep-seated. .

What I would suggest is that it's NOT necessarily the game, it's how it's PRESENTED by the author. I've seen other games that have sidebars specifically noting HOW to play the game, or how to use the rule. What *not* to do, even though technically you CAN.
BASHMAN did this in some areas of the rules, but I don't think it is noted or suggested much in the way of this stat-creep we're talking about.

That's why I was thinking of an official article explaining the very important reasoning for the extremes and the VERY broad groupings of the stat ranks of 0-5.
And YES!!!
YES, "0" is/should be a viable stat rank for characters that deserve it.... for example: One of my very favorite Marvel Villains: M.O.D.O.K. who can be portrayed (scary) with his massive intellect and mental powers. But he STINKS with Brawn and Agility. Likely a Brawn x1 & Agility x0.

While (this theoretical article) should also explain to the new player the "ranges" of a stat/power ranking. Why it's important, what to think about raising your stat/power from x3 to x4 or(especially) x4 to x5. How it does "technically" increase your chance to hit or hurt or defend, in-game reality it SIGNIFICANTLY increases how the character would be "seen".

For example: If I have a teen hero that's a brick that I consider to be sorta like the Thing or Colossus ... Bumping my Brawn up to x5 because I know that for the 2 CPs I ALSO get a better Soak ... I need to know that bumping it up from x4 to x5 effectively puts him in the STRENGTH level of the Hulk or Thor.
Does that break your "teen brick" concept? Is it worth it? And if not... what are alternatives to cover the areas you DO want to be more extreme? So if you wanted a "world class" Soak (x5 Brawn + x3 Armor) but not so much on the general strength.... What can you do??

Primarily though... I think it's not the system's fault for the creep.... it's the lack of understanding how that simple point bump REALLY effects the fiction and concept of the genre/world/story.

and quite frankly I think to really qualify for Mind 5 you're practically a cosmic being -- something kind of unfathomable in terms of how smart / willful / psychic it is. The Beyonder, a Celestial, etc..

YES!
This is the heart of what I'm talking about.
It's extreme with MIND but I also think it fits for AGILITY (2nd best) and BRAWN (lastly).

It's really hard to think of a character with MIND x5 all around. Let me try (I'm better with Marvel Comics) on all three Stats for characters that truly FIT the full x5 categories:


BRAWN: easy the rampaging Hulk or Juggernaut, Thor is honorable mention.

AGILITY: Silver Surfer (even Spidey doesn't fit completely, Agility is almost as tough as MIND)

MIND: the High Evolutionary!! and surprisingly, perhaps Dr. Doom!

I can see Dr. Doom having immense Mind, because ....

LOL
I replied above before reading your example! We're totally on the same page! hehe


-kev-

[kevperrine]

Not following you here. The sword (pretty clearly one-handed in the comics) is x2, plus the x2 from Weapon Technique, plus the +15 (not 20) from Brawn. So the sword blow is x4+15 -- pretty tough.

How is it you're seeing her HTH damage behind something other than her base Brawn of x4?

My mistake. I was thinking she had Weapon technique for 2CPs (that included melee and HtH attacks), hence a x6 punch.

And yup... I listed the sword at that x4+15. That's very cool.
I've not ever gotten into the "minutia" of understanding and seeing the build models using alot of the Intense Training powers.... They were always sorta confusing to me. I'm starting to GET it now. hehe
And will use them more/better.

-kev-

[Harrigan]

Not following you here. The sword (pretty clearly one-handed in the comics) is x2, plus the x2 from Weapon Technique, plus the +15 (not 20) from Brawn. So the sword blow is x4+15 -- pretty tough.

How is it you're seeing her HTH damage behind something other than her base Brawn of x4?

My mistake. I was thinking she had Weapon technique for 2CPs (that included melee and HtH attacks), hence a x6 punch.

Well, re-reading the rules I actually see that you're technically correct. That Weapon Technique of +2DM will actually go on top of her Brawn as well, as per the rules. In which case it would be almost a complete wash, with the weapons averaging 43 damage and her fists and feet 42. However, my *intention* is to have her do more damage with her weapons, so I'm okay ignoring the bonus to her unarmed damage. I guess I could technically avoid it by buying the 1pt version of Weapon Technique twice, once for swords and once for spears.

And yup... I listed the sword at that x4+15. That's very cool.
I've not ever gotten into the "minutia" of understanding and seeing the build models using alot of the Intense Training powers.... They were always sorta confusing to me. I'm starting to GET it now. hehe
And will use them more/better.

Actually, I think the martial arts rules are one of the things that's really attracted me to BASH -- it's HARD to do street level Supers well when your scale is as grainy as BASH's is, so I actually think they're kind of a saving grace. Very good stuff.

[Harrigan]

And MODOK -- Mind 5. =]

From DC, Brainiac should have Mind 5.

Agility 5 *is* hard. I'd lean towards speedsters. Quicksilver, Flash, etc. And Superman. So Guardian from Marvel, since he's John Byrne's supes? Beast? Probably not, I think I'd rate him a 4 along with Spidey...

[kevperrine]

And MODOK -- Mind 5. =]

From DC, Brainiac should have Mind 5.

Agility 5 *is* hard. I'd lean towards speedsters. Quicksilver, Flash, etc. And Superman. So Guardian from Marvel, since he's John Byrne's supes? Beast? Probably not, I think I'd rate him a 4 along with Spidey...

M.O.D.O.K. and Brainiac for sure MIND x5.

Yeah.
I'd actually not say 5 for Quicksilver. He's (IMHO) a very low rate Flash. Mutants in the Marvel Universe seem to never be "equal" to any counterparts of similar powers (in DC or Marvel), they almost all seem to be a step down in ranks. EXCEPT for Professor X, Jean Grey, and several of the villains like Magneto and Apocalypse. But even Cyclops and Storm aren't as "tough" in power as some of the same types of powered characters.

Definitely Flash though. Likely Superman, and yeah Gladiator (if Big Blue is x5).

Well, re-reading the rules I actually see that you're technically correct.

Am I completely?
I just assumed that you'd have to take Weapon Technique 2 to get both, but it would NOT function as a +2DM as well. I was assuming that to get all melee Weapons AND HtH with them all being +2DM you'd have to have Weapon Technique 3.

Is that not right?


-kev-

[Dragonfly]

Hey Kev!

Man, I'd love to play the Defenders game, but I'm just WAY too swamped by real life these days. I won't be able to do anything like that until Christmas.

Also, I think an article like the one you propose would be a good thing. I've thought about doing something like that myself, and I consider the house rules / benchmark work I've posted elsewhere to be my solutions to those issues in my campaigns. I don't think there should be "official" rulings from BASHMAN on such things, as there are many different styles of play out there and BASH UE needs to accommodate all of them, but I think sharing how we as individual players and groups approach these things is always fun and provides food for thought.

Anyway, about the my proposed Disadvantages:

1) Yes, I mean a -2 Multiplier Penalty.

2) As for cost balance: You can think of Normal Will as a Reverse Mind Shield. It's a -2 to Mental Defense for -1 point, whereas Mind Shield is a +2 to Mental Defense for +1 point. Is this balanced? That depends. I intentionally balanced it with Mind Shield as written, but I happen to think that you get too much for too little for that particular power. It should just be a Boost Mind (Only for Mental Defense), IMO. But yeah, I think Mind Shield balances with the RAW.

3) On modifying the description of Normal Will to include: "not being able to use MIND vs. Powers (like Daze) if the Character's "will" is normal." It's certainly what I had in mind, but I opted to keep the descriptor more vague and let individual Narrators make that call on a case by case basis.

4) Obsessed: These would include skills AND powers having to do with the chosen obsession. I think the keyword is "anything." So, Doctor Strange would have a Mind 5. This Mind 5 would apply to all his spells, as well as his magic related skills. It wouldn't, however, apply to his surgical skills, his perception rolls, or anything else not related to the mystic arts. Same with Reed Richards. He'd have a Mind 5. This would apply to all of his science and technology skills, as well as to any gadgetry that he develops in his lab. His Mind 5, for instance, would boost the damage of a Special Attack device that he whipped up with his Gadgetry skills. Obsessed, however, would keep him from being a master detective, a suave Don Juan, a master in the Humanities, etc. You may disagree, but I think a 1 point break seems appropriate here.

5) Turning them into Advantages just goes back to the Boost scheme, but you are getting the bonuses for cheaper. I don't like this at all, for the same reasons that I don't like Mind Shield as written. Also, it would defeat the purpose, which is to be able to have the likes of Reed Richards and Doctor Strange with a Mind 5 on their character sheets, while still keeping true to their in characters.

6) As to fairness in costs: I started off building characters like Reed and Strange with "low" Minds and boosts. I found, though, that such designs were highly inefficient. They were punishing players interested in playing those types of characters for staying in concept. The problem wasn't only the reduced number of skills they would get (two less, on average), but the number of points they had to blow on skillful to get their skills up to appropriate multipliers. I came to the conclusion that these Disadvantages were actually more fair in most cases, but will still use the lower Mind + Boost approach for certain characters and in certain campaigns.

7) A separate discussion for these already exists in the Laboratory section, but nobody (except Mr. Jupiter) came to play.

Best,

Dragonfly

[Saker]

Good morning, everyone. Pretty lively conversation.

@Harrigan
Yes, your WT 2 would apply to your unarmed strikes too for x6 damage. However, remember the Boost 2 Agility is only bought with weapons, so she would only be x3 to Hit. Plus AWP, DE, and SS only with weapons, so Valkyrie has a very strong incentive to use weapons but is not powerless without them.

@Dragonfly
Your Obsessed disadvantages are half of the existing Unskilled disad, which lowers your default by 2 instead of 1 (like your Obsessed) AND halves the number of skills you receive. This is the exact reason that I used Unskilled with Doctor Strange.

@Everyone
I believe I read that Doctor Strange cast Images of Ikonn and freaked out Galactus in FF 243, GALACTUS! Strange regularly tackles and out-thinks gods and demons without blinking, even in/on their own dimensions. He was one of the best neurosurgeons on the planet, which was about as super-science as Marvel could get when the character was created in 1963. Geeks were classified either "Rocket Scientists" or " Brain Surgeons." Strange is the later. Richards and Doom are the former.

Dr. Strange is very smart, period. He has an indomitable will. And he's very focused on magic. The only thing that separates him and Dr. Doom is that Doom is not only focused on magic, so I wouldn't build Doom with the Unskilled disad. Reed Richards doesn't have an indomitable will i.e. a x5 Mental Defense nor great perception, so I would build him with a lower Mind and Boost Mind to skills, which is how Dragonfly built him if I remember right. I would build Prof X the same way as Strange, because he has an indomitable will, great perception, and a focused skill set.

It's not really about raw Mind but how it affects the rolls: Mental Defense, Suggestion, Perception, Skills, etc.

cheers

[kevperrine]

HEADS UP DEFENDERS!!
Looking for a "last call" to see if this PbP game/campaign has legs!!

Anyone else want to throw a hat in the ring?!??

-kev-