kev's BASH!-BUILDS: Ameri'kid & Talon

[kevperrine]

Number one... THANKS Michael!!
I really really appreciate your (and other's) aid in corrections and such. I love making ideas and honing them to the most fun AND most "correct" (by the rules) potential possible.
So...
Not having played the game a ton (only about a dozen sessions so far) and not "interpreting" some of the rule reading correctly myself - I really appreciate when others call out the things I miss. Or call my attention to questions to ask.


That said. I sorta feel like my ideas and my character builds are "boring" to folks hear on the forums.
I don't get much reply in the way of "that's neat" as I've seen on other threads for character concepts. Not sure why. Maybe my ideas are overly complex or maybe they're just not as punchy fun as others.
Either way... sometimes I feel bummed that I'm not making cool things for the other folks (that I enjoy reading and respect) on the forums here, that I'm not making things to "give back" to BASH! enough.
Oh well.... whoa-is-me.... right?.... haha...

On to the thoughts/questions on your rule points!! HOORAH!!

Kid Wrangle:

1. Devastating Negating Weakness -4. This means he takes X3 damage each page he is within 5 squares of water, in addition to it turning off his powers..

Some thoughts and questions.
So YES. Water.
My original THOUGHT for the Weakness.
- I decided on water because it is a very common element and I really always liked a superhero weakness like old Green Lantern (Alan Scott) couldn't effect WOOD. Or Hal Jordan couldn't effect things colored YELLOW.
- So I chose the idea of WATER being a Weakness, the idea being it interrupts/disrupts the nanite-tech in his system.
- My thought was not that simply water, as in taking a bath or simple rain, etc... would cause the FULL Weakness to kick in
- For example: In our Issue last night, the Narrator did mention it started raining... a mid-west quick downpour. So I noted that my Weakness to water might cause negative Dice Penalties). But I didn't think taking a simple splash of water would or SHOULD kick in the full Weakness.
- My thought was that any water based attack.
- Or if Kid Wrangle were to need to go under the sea (a sub-mariner adventure!).
- Or harsh thunderstorms (like going to help a flood, tsunami, or storm based disaster)....

All of those WOULD kick in the full Weakness. But while water (now since beginning the nanite-meds) KW has an irrational queazy feeling of water and is developing Aquaphobia...

I didn't think a simple rain, splash or bath WOULD cause the full Weakness to kick in based on the definition of Aquaphobia (as my base idea starter):

Aquaphobia is a fear anxiety commonly extending to getting wet or splashed with water when it is unexpected, or being pushed or thrown into a body of water and avoid such activities as boating and swimming, or they may avoid swimming in the deep ocean despite having mastered basic swimming skills.

So basically, Kid Wrangle doesn't like water. He is developing Aquaphobia. It would create situations to mimic the DISAD: Susceptibility (-3DP) in any of the more simple water-based situations (such as rain, taking a bath, etc...), but the full-on lose of powers, stats to 1, and damage would only be begun on water attacks, drowning events, extended underwater times, or heavy weather problems.

So...
My question (to all those reading), do you think that makes sense? Do you think that's fair to the rules? Do you think the rules can allow for that (as written)?
What's your interpretation?
Or should I accept that it MUST be the full-on Weakness for any water or change the Weakness? And if change, do you have any suggestions?

THANKS!!

2. Weapon Technique is a maximum of 2, not 4..

Oops. Misread. I was thinking that you could take Weapon Technique up to a max of +x5 and that the 1-2 power point cost was referring to the notes in the power about the "levels" with the enhancement for complete weapon category.

Funnily... as is (for our teen-game) I was planning on going back and lowering some of those bonus to stats/hit anyway. He was just TOO GOOD, averaging 30-40+ to hit. (I was rolling really good though!). So that helps fix that AND fixes my rule misreading! HOORAY!

3. Weapon Technique cannot be linked. He is not going to forget his training. Looks like the power might not be weapon technique but is labeled that way..

Can't be linked? Why not?
I get the idea that a "trained" power like that in theory can't be linked. Is there an rule-as-written reason that I've missed?

That said. Looking at the point cost. It doesn't benefit the build cost in any way to have it linked. So the only reason would be for themeatic link, since the Weapon Technique is specifically FOR his Lariat, that is primarily used (as attacks) for his Immobilization power.


Which brings me to a question on that!
His IMMOBILIZATION power has the Limitation: Gadget, to show that it's his rope that he's using to lasso and tie villains up. I assumed that the Lariat Rope CAN be a "weapon" for the Weapon Technique power.
(assuming that) DOES that allow the Weapon Technique bonus (+x2 Agility to rope use) add to the hit multiplier FOR that Immobilization power (since it's using his Rope). And also... would using ANY power with his rope (such as swinging) get that bonus if in a situation that it could be called for?
[this might be a question best moved to the rule forum]

4. Agility cannot be boosted above 5..

Okay. So have I just misread?
Is there a HARD cap on all Stats and Powers to limit anything above x5 for a non-cosmic campaign scale?

Or is there a cap on Stats (x5 for non-cosmic), and then additions for the powers... such as:
Armor: Brawn 5+(x3)=x8 Soak
or
Special Attack's to hit = Agility 5+(x5)=x10 to hit.

I was assuming that unless a power or specific action/skill check noted "this cannot break the cap" that there was no cap.
Can you point me to the rules on this that I've missed if that's the case?

5. I don't think it makes sense to link a boost with immobilize. He is only good with ropes when he is using that particular rope for that particular task? Would be easier to just give him a +2 Boost Agility to Hit (x4 instead of x5, but simpler and applies to more situations).

See my questions/thoughts above for this comment.
thanks again!!
-kev-

[Saker]

Hey Kev

One reason that I don't post replies to you too often is volume. Your posts are incredibly long and complex, and your replies have a ton of questions. It takes quite a bit of time to digest your posts in order for me to make a quality reply.

That said. Keep posting. We're reading. Maybe prioritize your questions and make them more bite-size. If it doesn't help others, it would certainly help me.

cheers

[kevperrine]

Hey Kev

One reason that I don't post replies to you too often is volume. Your posts are incredibly long and complex, and your replies have a ton of questions. It takes quite a bit of time to digest your posts in order for me to make a quality reply.

That said. Keep posting. We're reading. Maybe prioritize your questions and make them more bite-size. If it doesn't help others, it would certainly help me.

cheers

LOL
Thanks Saker.
Like I said: whoa-is-me right? haha

Seriously... I get that alot. From my game-gang to my girlfriend (about texting her, LOL). I have an (unintentional) tendency to over-explain. And that gets long-ish sometimes. Thanks for the advice. I'll keep that in mind.

As for the posts here, on the character stats I create/post. Are you (also) saying THEY are too long? I have been posting a quick image of the character sheet I use + the text output (to more easily read/copy/paste) + I offer a "Builder Commentary" explaining my thoughts behind the build.

Is doing all that too much too?
Thanks!
-kev-

[Michael]

1. Hydrophobia is fine for a mental malfunction. A susceptibility when raining or in water is also fine. If you want a vulnerability that only occurs when taking damage, then the only one that fits is taking X2 or X3 damage from water based attacks, which could reflect problems from his nanites. In general, I'd suggest avoiding devastating negating weakness for -4 points since those are supposed to kill you, example given is vampires from sunlight.

"Is there an rule-as-written reason that I've missed?"
The top of page 52 might prohibit it:
"You cannot combine the benefits of this power with
other powers (except other Intense Training powers)."

"DOES that allow the Weapon Technique bonus (+x2 Agility to rope use) add to the hit multiplier FOR that Immobilization power"
Weapon technique does not give a bonus to hit with immobilization.

"Is there a HARD cap on all Stats and Powers to limit anything above x5 for a non-cosmic campaign scale?"
Non-Cosmic Caps:
Stats have a maximum of 5. Each power has a maximum, usually 5 or less (not counting enhancements).

[Saker]

Is doing all that too much too?

No that's fine. One of your characters with all of the build stuff is a lot to digest. If you want quality advice, posting one at a time would be a good post.

Evidence to that is the good advice you get from Michael and the tolerable suggestions from me.

cheers

[kevperrine]

As I've noted, our game-gang playing BASH! is swapping between Narrators in a "Round Robin" style. Last Issue we played super-fun teen-team PC-Heroes. Up this week we've been asked to come with a little more "fire-power" in the range of higher Street Level style. Adult heroes.

This is one of my ideas I'm working on.
As normal, I appreciate thoughts, rule-corrections, ideas, questions, etc...

PS...
I'm also working on the look/style of Simpson's AMAZING BASH! BUILDER Excel Character builder. I don't have an image for "Cindy" yet, but the sheet's looking shiny. Tell me what you think!

Cinderella Man
the punching bag
Name: Jake "Jacob" Lawrence Sullivan
Mental Malfunction: Some people can't fight. Those are the nice folks ya gotta fight for & the more he faces, the harder it is to break him. That's the way he likes it, constantly spoilin' for a fight. He just never knows when to quit, even when he's beaten.
Quote: hey… HEY! That ain't right! What the * do you think yer doing'??

----------Stats----------
BRAWN: 3
AGILITY: 2
MIND: 1
SOAK: x3,
DEFENSE: x2
MENTAL DEFENSE: x5, (Mind Shield)

----------Powers----------
SHAKE IT OFF (Healing 3) Concentration;
Combat panel to heal Dmg = Healing Lvl roll. Downtime: Heal 10 Hits/hr per Lvl.
L: Activation - roll d6: on a result of “1” does work for the page.
PIG-HEADED (Mind Shield 2) +x4 Mental Def.
L: Tiring; two consecutive Pages only (unless Push Yourself).

WHAM! (Paired Weapons) Extra HtH/panel at -1DP each.
BAM! (Swift Strike) Extra HtH/page at -1DP each.

WHEN I HURT, YOU HURT! (Special Atk 4)
L: Situational - Variable, Dmg can only get better equivalent to his HITS.
100 HITS: x3 Dmg; x7 Atk.
90 HITS: x4 Dmg; x6 Atk.
80 HITS: x5 Dmg; x5 Atk.
70 HITS: x6 Dmg; x4 Atk.
60 HITS: x7 Dmg; x3 Atk.
LIGHTS OUT (Daze) E: Repels target;
x4 vs. Mind; success loses Panel until 20.
LINKED (Boost Mind 3) Circumstantial - Only for Daze.
L: Situational - Must hit with a basic melee (x3 Atk).
HEAVE-HOE! (Push 2) Brawn shoulder throw x4 Atk, x8 Knockback.

URBAN CLIMBER (Clinging) L: cracks & finger punched holes.

----------Advantages----------
Never Surrender 2 ["Snap out of it" twice], Blaze of Glory [+2DP <30 HITS], Immortality [Yeah, he's really really old…]

----------Disadvantages----------
Age [Yeah, he's really really old…], Cursed [Trouble magnet; 1/Issue Narrator can tell you to re-roll, take worse], Unskilled [Book learnin' sucks. Default a skill at -x2MP], Public ID [Minor Celebrity: a popular boxer (won/lost Championships half-dozen times)], Rogue’s Gallery [Half the mugs & crooks in the city wanna pummel him (and have!)]

----------Skills----------
Athletics/Acrobatics
Streetwise/Gather Info

----------Weakness----------
Damaging-x2 Dmg vs. Hand-to-Hand Atks, 'cause bein' a boxing bruiser just hurts… "Cindy" bruises easily & feels every iota of every lump he takes. Getting popped stinks!

----------Breakdown----------
Breakdown: 27= Stats: 12, Ads/Disads: -1, Powers: 18, Weakness: -2

BUILD COMMENTARY

AAaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllRRiiiiiiiiight!! Cinderella Man is my take on a combo of ideas ... Inspired by Brad Pitt from Fight Club, mixed with a little Wolverine (healing) and crazy fighting skills (though not much super Brawn/Agility). A down on his luck guy, who's real "power" is to barely pull out wins, but only when lives are on the line (meaning a local bruiser in a bar might kick his butt at times) He has an indomitable willpower, just won't stop. Semi-crazy (in a good way) Irish Barfighter, that can barely get buzzed but doesn't let that stop him from trying to get drunk! He never goes a day without getting in a fight - hence his "mask" is his bruised face! hehe

Okay... Powers and such for my first draft interpretation of that.
"SHAKE IT OFF"... I wanted to have a tough guy with no armor and very little chance to dodge, but a good chance of staying in the battle. Healing is what he'll use for that! I wanted to have it limited though, because I liked the idea of his bruises and such just don't heal that easily/quickly. So I mimic that with the Limitation for Activation (it's also a fun randomizer I wanted to play with for the down on his luck style of Cindy).

"PIG HEADED"... follows up on his indomidable will, he just won't give up. But darn it's tiring. I took that Limitation to represent the fact that even with Healing, all that damage he might take HURTS bad! So it just gets tough for him to keep going with his ultra-willpower.

For attacking, Cindy's got a lot of talent but no skill (hence no Martial Arts type trainings). "WHAM, BAM" load up his attacks for 3 in a Panel when needed. "WHEN I HURT, YOU HURT!" is my attempt at some fun. I wanted an increasing power attack similar to a Hulk style. So I gave the Special Atk a Limitation that is a type of "variable" but not really. It sorta stinks alot more than a -1 Limitation. But I like it. Basically to hit harder, Jake needs hurt more.
LOL... I could see him actually putting himself in danger (taking a shot!) or asking a teammate to punch him ... just to get "riled up"!!

I wanted to follow up some of his Damaging attacks with some fun street fighter whammy. So I decided to go with a Daze attack for "LIGHTS OUT". I bought it with the extra that repels the target, with a Limitation that he must make a physical attack/hit to even be able to start the Mind check for the Daze. That's LINKED with a Boost Mind, to help out since CM isn't the sharpest tool in the shed normally.

The I wanted a flip-throw or even a kick in the chest type knockback attack. "HEAVE-HOE!" does that with a Push attack, knocking someone back an average of 56 ft or so!!

I wanted a little movement fun. I almost went with a Super Jump. But then I though..... nah... I see Cindy as a very "grounded" and somewhat clumsy hero. So leaping a small building didn't fit my image (even though a Jump or even Flight is always super HANDY in a supers game!). Instead... I liked this idea of him getting "higher ground" now and then - climbing up buildings and such. For a 1pt power you can't reduce it with a Limitation, but my idea is that he must be able to jam his fingers in the bricks for a bowling-ball style finger-climb hole effect. So... even without a cost-break, it fits my imagination... so in-game I'll go with that as a description, so climbing a glass wall... just wouldn't work.

As for ADs & DISADs... Pretty simple mostly. One that I'm not sure of, but can't imagine would be overwhelming. I decided to take the "Never Surrender" ADV twice. Not sure if that's legit by the rules, but it fits my idea for CM - the ability to "Snap out of it" alot to fit his willpower theme.
I loved the "Cursed" idea. It's a DISAD from the "Fantasy" section in the BASH! UE book, but I liked the suckiness of it. I usually like alot of skills, but went with Unskilled to fit the theme. The Rogue Gallery and his Public ID - is the fact he's been known as a boxing champ on and off. Getting beat more than winning. So that makes up a load of people that know him, but overall no one really cares too much. So he still "wears" a costume and "mask".

For a Weakness... I wanted something fun that represented the theme again. My idea... Damaging vs. any Hand-to-Hand attacks. Basically he's an over glorified bar fighter. So my thought was that he takes a load of lumps and bruises and as he does he gets stronger (with his Special Atk power above). That said... with a BIG punch in the face (like BASH! is prone for now and then!) he might be knocked so far down (with only 80 HITS to begin with for Age) that he might get one-shotted with a punch quick... we'll see in play!
Either way the very common Damaging thing (other fists!) fits his boxing style. Hopefully he'll have a shot to heal before falling down!



PS...
Does HEALING still work after a PC-Hero is reduced to 0 HITS? If he does go down... can his healing still work to wake him up?

[Dustland]

I really like the When I Hurt, You Hurt! power. Very unique way to model a power! Just hope he doesn't get hurt THEN have to fight someone with a high Defense!

The only other place I've seen someone use hits as a "trigger" to a power is the Berserker pregen in the BASH! book.

[Saker]

Hi Kev

As I wrote before, I love the concept of Cinderalla Man. A few comments on the build:

1. I don't understand the Special Attack (variable). It's listed as SA 4 with Brawn 3 and Agility 2, so that tells me your max is 9 (4+3+2). However, all of your attacks add to 10. What am I missing?

2. I don't see much of a limitation for that Special Attack (variable). It never "loses" effectiveness only transfers from attack to damage. It seems only description and not worth a limitation.

3. I really like the Daze power effect. Maybe just Link it to your Special Attack, so it affects when you attack. It seems simpler to me.

4. Or take Super Speed 3 (only affects if you hit in melee). Then you can use your Daze on the same page. Or maybe add Confusion too (bleeding cut above the eyes). Maybe in a multipower or not.

5. If you need the points, maybe put the Push in a multipower with Special Attack

6. I like your urban-climber, but I personally think Swinging (brachiation) works better. Same points, and it allows you easily cross open spans. I imagine it like the first chase scene in Casino Royale.

cheers

[kevperrine]

Hi Kev

As I wrote before, I love the concept of Cinderalla Man. A few comments on the build:

ROCK!
Thanks! Replies inline below...

1. I don't understand the Special Attack (variable). It's listed as SA 4 with Brawn 3 and Agility 2, so that tells me your max is 9 (4+3+2). However, all of your attacks add to 10. What am I missing?

You miss NOTHING!
Because you're correct sir!
And I suck at math! I was wrong with the numbers. This is the update, I think this fixes it.

80 HITS: x3 Dmg; x6 Atk.
70 HITS: x4 Dmg; x5 Atk.
60 HITS: x5 Dmg; x4 Atk.
50 HITS: x6 Dmg; x3 Atk.
40 HITS: x7 Dmg; x2 Atk.

Also I missed that I took the AGE Disadvantage so that starts the base Hits of 80 (not 100 as I had listed). Another mistake. I'd written that power before taking and ADs/DISADs (including
Age). It's fixed above.

2. I don't see much of a limitation for that Special Attack (variable). It never "loses" effectiveness only transfers from attack to damage. It seems only description and not worth a limitation.

My thought...
I wanted the "variable" to change the Atk/Dmg. But I knew it would NOT be truly variable. CM has no way to affect or change that. In fact... I'd say (my thought for) the Limitation is in FACT that he just CANNOT have a BIG damage attack UNTIL he's hurt ... a lot.

This fits my concept that's sorta in a superhero vein of Rocky Balboa. He get's stronger (ie. hits harder) the more he gets beaten up on.

So while it's variable in that way... if he's in a situation where he (or his team) needs him to pummel a villain with the power of a x5 Damage ... he literally has to be forced to take 40 HITS of damage before he can do that.
Which (in my imagination) could lead to some interesting role-play (and battle tactics for the rule/limitation)... as in...

CINDERELLA MAN: "awww, crap... uhh... G-monkey! HIT ME!!"

GORILLA X: "What?!?!!... I say, good sir... are you mad?"

CINDERELLA MAN: "Stop yer yammerin' and pop me in the face MONKEY!!"

GORILLA X: "Jacob? You are my teammate, my confidant, my friend... I will not hi..."

CINDERELLA MAN: [being levitated, as the supervillain "GRAVITAS" readies to rip CM apart through the force of Gravity!]
"AHHHHHRRGGGG.... Jump up here and kick me in the face, ya stoopid Ape! This moron needs some fist-justice and my punch just ain't strong enough yet!! DAMNIT X, JUST HIT ME!!!

Does that make better sense?
Still not as Limiting as you think it should be?

3. I really like the Daze power effect. Maybe just Link it to your Special Attack, so it affects when you attack. It seems simpler to me.

huh...
I might look at that.
I thought doing something like that might be a little gamey/cheesy... Maybe not. I'll look at it. It sure would be a NICE benefit actually, to his normal attacks (if they're lower Damage at the moment).

4. Or take Super Speed 3 (only affects if you hit in melee). Then you can use your Daze on the same page. Or maybe add Confusion too (bleeding cut above the eyes). Maybe in a multipower or not.

I looked at Super Speed first. My thought was that it says in the rules for SS: "You cannot rest or heal in a page in which you use Super Speed.".
I want to be able to HEAL in combat, in the same round he attacks. So, with the 4pts cost for "Paired Weapons" and "Swift Strike" he can get 3 actions for (theoretically) 2 attacks, 1 Heal, and 1 Move.

If I LINK Daze to his Special Atk (as you suggested) that would allow for "using" Daze on the same page.

As for Confusion, I just didn't want that many effects/powers. The powers are complicated build enough. Daze fits what I imagined most.

5. If you need the points, maybe put the Push in a multipower with Special Attack

As with Daze...
It's a thought.
My original thought was to force myself to have to choose in-game play. Not just do both. that feels power-gamey to me. For THIS character concept anyway (as I could see it working fine for a character who's concept fits that more)...

I will look at the point breakdown though. See if it makes any better sense to Multi-Power or Link them.
It does certainly make more "tactical" sense as the rules go.

6. I like your urban-climber, but I personally think Swinging (brachiation) works better. Same points, and it allows you easily cross open spans. I imagine it like the first chase scene in Casino Royale.

Oooooooooooo.... I totally like that!!!
Basically * in with my "urban" running/jumping but not having a crazy Super Jump that breaks my imagination for the concept.
I love the image of being inbetween buildings and describing the "swing" as leaping between one to the other! Digging his fingers into the brick as he slams into the adjacent building!!
TOTALLY!!!

heheh. love it!
thanks!
-kev-

[Saker]

Does that make better sense?
Still not as Limiting as you think it should be?

IMHO, not limiting enough to give you a point

I want to be able to HEAL in combat, in the same round he attacks. So, with the 4pts cost for "Paired Weapons" and "Swift Strike" he can get 3 actions for (theoretically) 2 attacks, 1 Heal, and 1 Move.

BUE p17 "Heal. Healing, Restore, and similar powers count as an attack for the purposes what one can do in the panel."

You absolutely can not combine Heal and attack, and Super Speed can't help you there either. Rethink that concept.

I'm glad you like the Brachiation too, my Pbp character Fenris has it for the same effect.

cheers

[Dustland]

Yeppers, unless you house rule it or BASH! introduces a Regeneration ability, you just can't get around the no Healing and Attacking in the same page rule.

[kevperrine]

Does that make better sense?
Still not as Limiting as you think it should be?

IMHO, not limiting enough to give you a point

hmmm... Okay.
I'm looking for a solution. Our Narrator is talking this over with me too. He's of the opinion that it equals out with:
Enhancement: Variable / Limitation: Situational.

Which, part of me understands and sort of agrees with.

Let me explain.
(BTW: this is NOT snarky, or trying to convince you, or anything. I'm just looking for the best solution for the concept. That's both in the rules fair, as well as fair to the point cost for the cool background idea of the power)


What I'm looking for a solution on. Or a suggestion. Or just a "how is this fair/right" by the balance of the rules and cost, is this...
I've built a neat concept for background and a way to handle it via the rules of the game (ie. the Situational: Dmg can only get better equivalent to his HITS.).
My question remains....
While the power IS technically "variable" (it changes), the character has NO control of it. So... why would he need to pay a cost for the Variable Enhancement?
Furthermore...
If that Limitation is not worth the -1 pt (as I've explained and given an example)... what is it "worth"?

I ask because the written description WILL BE a negative in a combat situation. There will be times Cinderella Man *needs* a higher Damage Multiplier but hasn't taken enough HITS of damage to have it yet. Likewise, there will be times that he'll have taken alot of damage (thereby increasing his Damage Multiplier) but not be able to hit on an attack due to a decreased Attack Multiplier.


Otherwise.... (honestly) why would I bother to write up a power with this type of negative situation if there is no cost balance?

And before it's said.... YES. I agree with the "because it's his story background" and not everything needs/deserves a cost break. I'm all about that.
However... In this instance, not being able to USE his full ability (a pretty awesome x7 Dmg Multiplier) until and, in fact ONLY when, he's taken 40 HITS of damage......

To me. That's alot of drawback for nothing.
Lastly.
Flat out. I agree with the idea of concept FIRST. Story FIRST. I really do believe that and enjoy it. THAT is the fun of a great role-playing game!
But... it's in the words: role-playing *GAME*.
The rules matter.
And while the rules shouldn't override the story, I also believe that a story CHOICE (by the player) should not take a cost without a balance of some sort.

I've always thought that if you take a hard-line written out "If this = That" rule that happens everytime the condition is there.... that should be followed in-game.
Because of that, it seems (to me) that it deserves to be granted some kind of a "cost" (positive or negative).


In this case...
I am curious to hear what you think about that thought, and if you agree that it deserves some sort of a cost - what that might be if not the normal -1 Limitation.

(again.... this line of thought/question is ALWAYS coming from a good place and fun. I appreciate your opinions and ideas!)

BUE p17 "Heal. Healing, Restore, and similar powers count as an attack for the purposes what one can do in the panel."

You absolutely can not combine Heal and attack, and Super Speed can't help you there either. Rethink that concept.

HEY!!
Didn't see or know that! (sometimes the rules are hidden to me)

I'll change it now. It might actually make more sense/cost to take Super Speed 5.... to get any type of action for the extra Panel rather than ONLY attacks at a -1 each for both Swift Strike and Paired Weapons.
I'll have to look.
Though, my first thought is... that's just another way to build it... and in a way sorta goes a tiny bit around concept for the benefit of the power compared to the other two.

I'm looking to make an efficient character. But not for sake of cost to concept. I'll have to re-read Super Speed to see if it fits at all.

I'm glad you like the Brachiation too, my Pbp character Fenris has it for the same effect.

Love love love it!!
I really dig "Free Running" ... it's popular in Seattle, even though I've never seen it live. And there's no way my aging fat butt could manage it. heheh

-kev-

[kevperrine]

BUE p17 "Heal. Healing, Restore, and similar powers count as an attack for the purposes what one can do in the panel."

HEY!
I just thought. With Swift Strike and Paired Weapons that give a character an extra Panel each for attacks... does this mean that the character could choose to use HEALING three times?

If so, does the -1DPs (from S.S. & P.W.) effect anything on the Healing power?


My first thought is to ask the question.
My second thought is "No" - because this is NOT D&D4. heheh...

My reason for asking is that an attack isn equivalent or greater than another actions in D&D4 (and other RPGs). But... I'm also learning, that in BASH! there are no "keywords" or fallbacks like that...
The reading of the paragraph is just as it says. No really interpretation and it's not really meant to be extrapolated to apply to other situations.


What do you think?
-kev-

[Saker]

Huh?

Kev, I think that you're making this more complicated than necessary. Both Swift strike and paired weapons give you an extra attack per attack action with a -1 dice penalty. The assumption/ premise is that the character is making hand-to-hand attack as it clearly says in both SS and PW descriptions.

There's no extra actions. And the action description on p17 is very clear about Heal taking an attack action to use.

It's pretty clear. And IMHO the game mechanics are much better off without the D&D definitions and explosions of rules.

cheers

[kevperrine]

Kev, I think that you're making this more complicated than necessary. Both Swift strike and paired weapons give you an extra attack per attack action with a -1 dice penalty.
...
It's pretty clear. And IMHO the game mechanics are much better off without the D&D definitions and explosions of rules.

LOL
Yeah... I'm sure I am.

But you missed my point. I was thinking about swapping out the 4pts of powers (Swift Strike and Paired Weapons) which give an HtH attack each at -1DP ... changing to - the 5pts Super Speed power, which gives two extra PANELS plus allows to drop those for +1 Agility, plus allows for quicker actions for extended and skill checks, etc...

That's just better, for only one extra point.
I assume I'm reading those all correctly to understand it that way.

That said.
I am NOT doing that, as it doesn't really fit with the concept. Concept shouldn't be sacrificed for rule benefit. BUT, when the rule benefit also goes along with the concept ... HORRAY!

Also....
I'm posting my update of "Cindy". I've changed a few things based on comments and our Narrator's thoughts. Notice I did change from Clinging to Swinging and I DID add in the Enhancement "Variable" which canceled out the -1 Limitation listed for the drawback on the Special Attack (that wasn't worth a full -1 by itself) ... adding the Variable evens it out, which our Narrator thought was more fair.

So... it's a negative for the concept/background more than anything now.
Which is cool by me. It's only one point afterall. hehe...

-kev-