Dragonfly's Nest: FIREFIGHT!

[Dragonfly]

Howdy!

First, I think this is a great idea!

Thanks! Yeah, I'm a big fan of benchmarks and always develop them for my games. I just hadn't gotten around to solidifying them for BASH! yet.

Captain America: I think his shield multipower should be 6 pts, not 12, right?

Actually, it's 13 pts! YOWZAH! That special attack with 5 levels of Ricochet really adds up! Oh, and one thing I'm interested in getting feedback on is the ranges I've assigned to things. Sometimes I think BASH! write-ups skimp on ranges, but sometimes I think I overdo it.

Hulk: Personally, I wouldn't link his Super Running and his Boost Agility. (snip) In fact, I might go so far as to say drop the Super Running and just go for a higher Boost (and maybe Fleet of Foot). (snip) As for Super Jump, how about adding the Extra Effect enhancement? It's pretty flexible about just how it gets interpreted. Hulk is just about the best (and most iconic) super jumper I can think of.

Good advice all around! I don't know why I went with my somewhat clunky construction for the running speed. I just gave him more of a Boost, as you suggested, and left it at that.

The Extra Effect enhancement is perfect! I hadn't noticed how versatile that is! That's the solution I'm using for the ever loving Hulk!

Mister Fantastic: I think a boost to brawn for elastic stuff is certainly appropriate. It's one element of the power that is easily overlooked, but definitely comes up sometimes. Of course, you could also say that it comes up rarely enough that it may just be him power stunting Boost, rather than having it all the time. That's a judgment call.

Thanks. I've been debating what to place this at (x3 or x4). I ultimately went with x4, just because he often uses it to wrap around Ben and hold him back. You get the sense that Ben could break out if he struggled, but that it's enough to keep him in check for at least a moment.

Spider Man: I would say Humanities (Photography), or if you don't like adding custom specialties then Humanities (Art). I would consider putting a Gadget/Ammo limitation on one of his web shooter multipower slots, whichever one uses the most web fluid (probably Immobilize). And then put the a Same Source limitation on the other slots of the multipower and his Swinging power. He can swing all day long, but once he starts using lots of web fluid for the big immobilizations, etc., then once he's out of fluid he can't swing either.

I'd considered Humanities (Photography), but was talking myself out of it by thinking that Humanities was more a knowledge skill than a craft skill. I'm probably over thinking this.

As for the web-shooters: your construction is brilliant! I love it! The only problem remains how drastic the Ammo rules are as written. If I make the Immobilize an Ammo draining function, he'll have a couple of shots in it at best (at least that's the way it seems to me). In the comics, he just doesn't run out that often. I simulated his occasional web fluid problem with a Disadvantage called Unluck, which allows the Narrator to make something go drastically wrong once per issue. This could be running out of web fluid, or it could be something else entirely. I think it works well for the web head.

Resistances: Bashman has said that Resistances halve damage before soak. I kind of agree with you that after might be better, and have been flip/flopping about whether I want to house rule it. My groups been distracted by some other stuff the last month or two so I haven't had to commit yet.

Gurk! I think I'll house rule it!

Immunities: I don't think starvation and thirst are two separate immunities (see Unliving for example).

I was wondering that myself! The Unliving example makes it clear. Thanks!

Mighty Fists: I'd just use the +1 attack, +1 damage from your broad HtH Weapon Technique, myself. Not sure that having a +2 Special Attack that doesn't stack is needed for the concept or worth the points.

Yeah, I see your point. I wanted Thor to do x7 with a punch due to the formula I'm using to convert damage from SAGA. Basically, the DM in BASH! is 35% of the damage dealt is SAGA. Thor's 19 Strength comes in at x7. I got rid of the Special Attack as you suggested, and added the Variable Enhancement to his Weapon Technique, which allows him to put +2 into Damage, thus giving him the x7 I desire. It also makes him a little more flexible a combatant, which I like.

High Flight Speed: I'm not convinced I'd give him the Super Speed trick; he has really fast out-of-combat speeds. (snip) To represent his out of combat speed there are two solutions. (snip) I just put the Space enhancement (from the Cosmic powers section) on the Flight power. It's long distance speeds are exactly what I think of for the really fast speeds some fliers reach, including Thor. It's the same cost, and just feels more appropriate to me.

Again, great advice! One problem - if you read the description, Space can't be used in atmosphere. The Narrator can fudge this, of course, but I'm trying to be a bit by the book (my house rules not withstanding). Were you the one that recommended Hyperflight in an earlier thread? Do you think it's worth granting Thor both Hyperflight (which would amount to extra effect for flight in atmosphere) AND Space? I think he can do both in the comics. Anyway, that's what I've done for now, and I've reduced his combat Flight to 15 Squares.

Specifically for Thor: I'd probably use two Special Attacks, one for his melee/ranged hammer attacks, and the second for his Lightning. But ultimately it is up to the narrator.

This is what feels right to me as well, except that I would allow the lighting bolt attack to ALSO stand in for his other energy attacks (mystical, cosmic, etc.) - given that it has the Variable Enhancement.

Personally, I agree with many of your choices, though there are a handful I looked at and said "*?!?". But it really is irrelevant to this thread, although if its the type of thing you enjoy and you'd like to engage in that (maybe in another thread?), I'm ready to rumble!

LOL! I'd be fine with rumbling, but I see it more as a healthy dialogue. Seriously, I'm interested in constructive dialogue around these issues. Even if we end up not agreeing, the discussion helps to clarify my own thinking. SO, I'd LOVE to hear your *! moments, either here, or another thread, or via PM.

More later, but from what I've seen on a quick look, great job all the way around!

Thanks, Lindharin. You are a scholar, a gentleman, and an all around big help! I look forward to your continued feedback.

Best,

Dragonfly

[Dragonfly]

Hey folks!

Just for kicks, I’m converting some of my first Champions characters ever over to BASH UE. I’ll post ‘em, for what they are worth. Some might be cheesy and somewhat nonsensical, but MAN they fun to play back when I was 13 years old.

First up is Arachnid. Check out his horribly contrived real name. Also, note that he wears a mask, even though he has a public identity. I guess I could have updated him for modern audiences, but these are more fun to post in their original glory. 

BTW, the Arachmobile is a "car" that runs on eight mechanical spider-legs, super-leaps, and climbs walls. Think of it as a terrestrial version of Blue Beetle's "Bug."

Cheers!

Dragonfly

ARACHNID
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34911473/Arachnid

[Lindharin]

This is a great idea, Dragonfly! I wonder if I still have any old super characters from when I was a kid.

[Dragonfly]

This is a great idea, Dragonfly! I wonder if I still have any old super characters from when I was a kid.

Thanks, Lindharin. Needless to say - I would enjoy looking at any "classic conversions" that you might post.

Best,

Dragonfly

[Dragonfly]

Hey folks!

I'll continue the posting of old characters at another date. The following is an NPC hero for my Classic Champions game. There is nothing sexy here - just a simple speedster. Still he's part of the campagin - an ally the heroes met on their second adventure - so I thought I'd post him. There is one question ya'll can help me answer. How fast does he run in MPH, and how is that figured?

Without further ado, here is:

Fleetfoot
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34968989/Fleet-Foot

Best,

Dragonfly

[gryfn]

those rules are no the side bar on page 40
so 4 times 8 = 20 for 310 mph top speed

[Dragonfly]

those rules are no the side bar on page 40
so 4 times 8 = 20 for 310 mph top speed

Hm...I'm getting 4 X 8 = 32 for 320 MPH with super running. I guess my confusion comes in with how his Super Running interacts with his Super Speed.

Most characters have a "move twice" option with their run. The language on the sidebar on page 42, however, suggests that characters with super movement powers use the Top Speed rules INSTEAD of the "move twice" option. The Top Speed option is triple your normal move (so 96 squares for Fleetfoot). I get that.

Now: Super Speed gives Fleetfoot 2 extra panels per page. Can he use these for movement? If so, does he triple his Top Speed for 288 squares or 960 MPH? I guess he would, but the language on the sidebar is making me wonder if this is the case.


BTW, how would you guys go about creating the hyper speeds that we see in comics. At this point I would follow Lindarin's lead and use the Extra Effect enhancement. Lindharin - do you have a system for determining just how much faster each rank of Extra Effect makes you?

Best,

Dragonfly

[gryfn]

my math was off by 10 mph
hyperspeed looks like this

6 multipower speed
super running 5
teloport 5 only to places you could run

i don't think superspeed increases max speed but i might be wrong

[Lindharin]

I don't have my books with me, so I'm not sure off the top of my head whether super speed increases out-of-combat speed or not.

As for really fast speeds out of combat, I use the speed chart for the Space enhancement from the cosmic chapter. It could be bought via "Extra Effect", or a new enhancement called "Hyperspeed" or whatever, but the end result is just applying the speed rules from the Space enhancement.

A more official solution is to put Teleport in a multipower with Super Running or Flight, and apply a limit of "Only Places I Can Run (or Fly)". That works too, but in my opinion it is less flavorful and the speeds in the Space enhancement are exactly what I'm looking for, and it costs the same either way.

[Dragonfly]

Hey folks!

Okay, here is an orginal villain for a campaign that I'm probably going to be starting pretty soon. He's pretty involved, so I had a hard time * him on the character sheet. You'll probably have to download him to read him, but I hope you enjoy.

Doctor Ebon Wight
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35396849/Ebon-Wight

I'm curious to get feedback on his necromantic powers, his poisoner powers, and his weird science powers.

Best,

Dragonfly

[Lindharin]

Very cool! I didn't add everything up, but I looked at the cost of each individual power and I think it all looks correct. You might want to add Variable to the Boost, so he can control what stat gets boosted.

What did you mean by "must be able to puncture target's skin" for the poisons? Just referring to the fact that an energy being or solid rock or something isn't going to be affected? Or did you intend to use a mechanic of some type so anyone with a soak of X is immune, or you need to do damage with your "taloned fingernails" first, or something like that.?

I'm not sure about putting your weird science powers in a multipower - I think by the book it would mean that as soon as he switches 'slots' from body augmentation to gene splicing the first one would end. But really it seems to be a plot device more than a real power, and as a villain it is kind of irrelevant how many points he costs anyway. It doesn't affect his own stats, for example, so to some extent it doesn't really matter.

[Dragonfly]

Howdy Lindharin!

Very cool! I didn't add everything up, but I looked at the cost of each individual power and I think it all looks correct. You might want to add Variable to the Boost, so he can control what stat gets boosted.

Thanks! You're right about the Boost. I'll go ahead and add that.

What did you mean by "must be able to puncture target's skin" for the poisons? Just referring to the fact that an energy being or solid rock or something isn't going to be affected? Or did you intend to use a mechanic of some type so anyone with a soak of X is immune, or you need to do damage with your "taloned fingernails" first, or something like that.?

The puncturing skin thing is because I initially imagined him injecting people with syringes. As far as mechanics go, I'm figuring that most armor will block it, whether it be a force field, or kevlar, or power armor, or rock hard skin. If the individual has ANY exposed skin, Doctor Wight can affect the target with a called shot. I slept on it, though, and I might be limiting him unnecesarily. I'm sure he has this stuff in gas form, for instance, so maybe I should take that Limitation off, or alter the wording a little bit.

I'm not sure about putting your weird science powers in a multipower - I think by the book it would mean that as soon as he switches 'slots' from body augmentation to gene splicing the first one would end. But really it seems to be a plot device more than a real power, and as a villain it is kind of irrelevant how many points he costs anyway. It doesn't affect his own stats, for example, so to some extent it doesn't really matter.

Good point about the slots on the multi-power! I'll go ahead and change that, since I do want him to be written up accurately. I considered that I should relegate his weird science to the realm of plot device, but I thought it would be fun and neat to write some of them up using the rules.

Here's a question that is more about concept than about mechanics:

Do you think he is "too much?" I like his necromancy/poisoner/weird science stuff, but I'm wondering if he shouldn't be more tame in terms of his physical abilities. Maybe a Brawn 1, Agility 2, Mind 3 or so. I don't think he's overbearing as he is (nowhere close), but he is meant to be more of a master mind type than a slug-it-out with the heroes kind of guy. I'm wondering if his clinging, physical resilience, taloned finger nails, spider-man level agility, and athlete level brawn don't make him more than he should be right now. I'm wondering if I shouldn't start him off more modest in these regards, and then have him develop some of these abilities with experience, as he experiemnts on his own body with his weird science. BTW, where he sits now is somewhat modest to what he might be able to do eventually. Some of his inpsiration is Freddy Kruger, so I could see him with some forms of stretching and shape-shift in the long run (not right now). When I think of lowering his abilities, however, I start to think that the clinging, talons, etc. make him creepier and therefore cooler. I dunno. What's your vote?

Best,

Dragonfly

[Lindharin]

Well, he is an undead villain, so it didn't strike me as odd that he's not the typical evil scientist type. I think the clinging and talons do make him creepier. Stat-wise, improved physical stats are a staple for undead in almost every genre/game, and his aren't really all that high. So my opinion is that his physical stuff fits the concept, and it makes him not just another Lex Luthor.

[Dragonfly]

So my opinion is that his physical stuff fits the concept, and it makes him not just another Lex Luthor.

Sold! This last observation alone convinces me that I should keep him as he is. Thanks for that.

BTW, here is one last question about mechanics. Do his poisoner powers also turn off when he switches slots in the Multi-Power?

In other words, If he hits someone with a continual damage poison, or a paralysis poison, and then switches to a different poison next page, does the continual damage or immobilization effect drop? Or is it different when you are working with attack effects?

Best,

Dragonfly

[Lindharin]

It sort of depends on the effect, but most attack effects are 'fire-and-forget'. Here's Bashman's post on this topic.

So I'd think they are okay.