Welcome to BASH! - Basic Action Superheroes
Honor + Intrigue!!  Cinematic Swashbuckling Rolepaying Game
  Login or Register
::  Home  ::  Your Account  ::  Forums  ::
   
Menu
 
Site Information
Your IP: 54.225.54.120

Welcome, Anonymous
Nickname
Password

· Register
· Lost Password
Server Date/Time
26 September 2017 07:41:31 UTC (GMT +0)
 
BASH! - Basic Action Superheroes: Forums

BASH - Basic Action Super Heroes :: View topic - Wrestling is too good

 
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups      RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Wrestling is too good

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BASH - Basic Action Super Heroes Forum Index -> The Laboratory
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BeardedDork
Hero
Hero


Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 348
Location: The Snow Covered Mountains of Montana

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: Wrestling is too good Reply with quote

We decided last night that wrestling favors the brawny character to greatly. Once a weaker character is grabbed by stronger character there is little they can do to escape. Our answer is to simply allow a character to try to escape a grapple using their agility or brawn, as they choose. This system allows for a greater chance to escape without overly defeating the advantage of grappling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Boost
Hero
Hero


Joined: Aug 06, 2010
Posts: 315


PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems reasonable to me, although I still haven't been able to play an actual game so I wouldn't be aware if this unbalances the game in other ways. However using Agility to wiggle out of someones grasp seems logical.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sween
Unknown Quantity
Unknown Quantity


Joined: Sep 10, 2010
Posts: 5
Location: Nottinghamshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you mean, Initialy its a choice of Brawn or Agility for the attack but "from this point forward its Brawn Vs Brawn only" gives a good advantage. But consider Martial Arts Judo, Change Form, Ghost Form, Telekenisis all help escaping/fighting too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lindharin
Paragon
Paragon


Joined: Apr 05, 2010
Posts: 612
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And there is the Agility based skill, Escapology. I let people roll that (at Agility - 1 if unskilled) to escape a grapple. So it still gives the edge to the brawny type who has you in his grip, but doesn't totally overwhelm the high Agility, low Brawn defender.

Also, keep in mind that the grappled character can still act, it's just restricted. They can still attack the grappler, or use some ranged attacks against other targets (possibly limited by facing, if you use that), unless the grappler is giving up his turn to use the Restrain maneuver to prevent it.

And as narrator, if my NPC is the grappler and the target has trouble getting away, I'll take advantage of it for a page or two (usually wielding him as a weapon against other melee targets once or twice), then throw him at someone. It still feels appropriate - he isn't just "letting the guy go" for no reason, he's making a legitimate and very comic-booky action - but it lets the overwhelmed PC out of the grapple without feeling like a cop out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BeardedDork
Hero
Hero


Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Posts: 348
Location: The Snow Covered Mountains of Montana

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly what I did a couple of weeks ago when it was an NPC who dominated the grapple. Last night we encountered the same problem with a PC owning the grapple. This something that has been an issue every time we have played.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lindharin
Paragon
Paragon


Joined: Apr 05, 2010
Posts: 612
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a player who likes grappling, it will certainly be an ongoing situation, and you're right to look for a solution that makes your group happy.

If you are looking for some ideas to how to (fairly) counter it for your NPCs, here are some things you might consider when making your villains (without needing them to all have high Brawn or Agility).

Many other powers can help break a grapple: a successful daze or mind control would break one automatically, plus powers like Ghost Form, Growing, Shrinking, etc. Someone with TK could probably use it instead of Brawn in an escape roll. You probably couldn't grapple anyone inside the Force Field power (ie, a bubble, not someone with just Armor described as a force field), and I think I've seen the Invisible Woman create a skin-tight force field after being grappled and expand it into a bubble, forcing the grappler to let go - you might allow a character like that to roll her Force Field rank to break a grapple. Similarly, someone with Push might be able to roll it to break a grapple, depending on the special effect.

And of course you can use a Hero Die to automatically escape. More interestingly, you can also use a Hero Die to power stunt one of the above powers. Many characters can come up with some sort of justification for power stunting the Daze power - The Human Torch could burn the air around (or in) the grappler's head/lungs leaving him gasping and unable to act for a page or two, while a blaster like Cyclops could do a point-blank stunning blast to the head (he's done that to Colossus a few times, not really hurting him but dazing him), a martial artist could do a nerve pinch, etc. Any of those could be valid justifications for stunting the Daze power, which would let you escape the grapple, and you can use it for the rest of the scene so isn't a one-time thing per hero die.

If it hasn't come up yet in your game, you might want to keep an eye on any characters (PC or NPC) using Immobilize. In my opinion, Immobilize is much worse than Grapple in most respects, since the victim can't even act until he gets out, which means most of these tactics won't help (depending on the exact special effects involved).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BASHMAN
All-Father of Bash!
All-Father of Bash!


Joined: Apr 04, 2010
Posts: 2462


PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me begin by saying, when I came up w/ the Grapple rules, it was very much because I'm a fan of the Brick type characters, who unfortunately in the old system were only good for soaking up damage, as their grapple attempts nearly always ended in failure. So I thought letting them base their first grab off Brawn alone would be a way to compensate for that- but to some, it seems to be over compensating!

This same conversation came up on the old forums. I recommended some possible alternatives:

Grabbing somebody uses Agility, but you get a +1 Multiplier bonus if your Brawn is higher.

Grabbing somebody uses a straight x3 Multiplier regardless of stats

Another idea that I think might work better:

Roll with Brawn/Agility whichever is LOWER. Whichever is higher, add the difference as a Dice Bonus to your roll. The same would apply to the defender here. Certain defensive powers, like Danger Sense would apply, but others like Deflect would not.

In addition, you'd need to change the Grappling Style martial art to read "It increases your MULTIPLIER for all wrestling rolls" instead of increases your Brawn specifically.

So let's say we've got a super fast, web-wielding guy vs. a big hulking green menace. Our swing line skulk has Agility 3, Danger Sense, and Brawn 3. Big Green is trying to grapple him. Big Green has Brawn 5 Agility 2, and Grappling Style martial arts.

Big green rolls 2d6 x3 (Agility of 2 is lower than Brawn of 5, but he gets +1 Multiplier from Grappling style). He also gets a dice bonus of +3 (Brawn 5 minus Agility of 2). So he'll roll (2d6+3)x3 to do his grapple.

The Skulk rolls 2d6x5 (He gets no dice bonus because his Agility & Brawn are the same. He uses 3 as his base multiplier (the "lower" of the two stats) and gets a +2 Multiplier Bonus from Danger sense.

Assuming they both roll a 7, Big Green gets a 30 and Skulk gets a 35, managing to evade his grasp- but it's close. Not as close as it is under current rules, where their rolls would be tied (both rolling at x5).

Once he is Grappled, the Skulk could try wasting his effort in a brawn contest to escape, but that isn't very likely to succeed. However, being grabbed doesn't prevent you from attacking or using your powers unless the grabber is specifically restraining you from doing a specific task. Likewise, Escapology/Contortion could probably be used to aid in escaping a grapple. Then there is always the old "I toss a Hero Die" and break free automatically.
_________________
Chris Rutkowsky
Basic Action Games
Now on Facebook!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WaylanderPK
Costumed Crimefighter
Costumed Crimefighter


Joined: Jul 04, 2011
Posts: 189


PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like a lot of maths Wink
It seems to be that what your saying is both agility and brawn are important in wrestling. Why not just add brawn and agility + bonuses (up to x10) and roll.

In the Skulk and Menace scenario the Green guy will be x8 (5+2+1) and the Skulk will have x8 (3+3+2), so its down to the dice roll. Its also quicker to resolve Wink

As it is, my gaming group didn't really like the revised rules in the UE edition (for grappling) so we are sticking to the previous set (for now).
_________________
Waylander: Never send jackals to hunt a lion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BASH - Basic Action Super Heroes Forum Index -> The Laboratory All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1
  
  

Jump to:   

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.


The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2010 by Basic Action Games.




(Original PHP-Nuke Code Copyright © 2004 by Francisco Burzi)
Page Generation: 0.08 Seconds
:: BASH! style by Basic Action Games ::